[Dawg]

You are drinking the Obama kool aide arent ya. And here I thought you of all the posters were smarter than that. Im not buying what Obama or the media is selling.

[mriff]

Naw. I'm not drinking any Obama kool aid either. Not sure how you made that jump. This has nothing to do with the current spenders. This has to do with someone that I considered to be a great military man, statesman and all around good person. I think he was treated rather badly by the Bush administration. I think he knows that. And I think that's why he left early.

[mriff]

More on Powell/Ridge v. Cheney/Limbaugh.

Analysis: Powell flap gets GOP to ask 'What kind of party are we?' - CNN.com

From the article:

Among Republicans, Powell, Cheney and Limbaugh are equally revered with favorability ratings in the 60s, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll.

But among all voters questioned, Powell has a favorability rate of 70 percent compared to 30 percent for Limbaugh. A poll a week ago found that Cheney had a favorability rate of 37 percent.

[djm2]

Originally Posted by mriff

More on Powell/Ridge v. Cheney/Limbaugh.

Analysis: Powell flap gets GOP to ask 'What kind of party are we?' - CNN.com

From the article:

Among Republicans, Powell, Cheney and Limbaugh are equally revered with favorability ratings in the 60s, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll.

But among all voters questioned, Powell has a favorability rate of 70 percent compared to 30 percent for Limbaugh. A poll a week ago found that Cheney had a favorability rate of 37 percent.

Without having gone to the source article, what that implies is that the favorability ratings for Limbaugh and Cheney among non-Republicans had to be miniscule.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by djm2

Without having gone to the source article, what that implies is that the favorability ratings for Limbaugh and Cheney among non-Republicans had to be miniscule.

Yeah. Probably getting close to or at zero.

[djm2]

Originally Posted by mriff

Yeah. Probably getting close to or at zero.

I really hope the party listens to Powell and can be a viable counter-balance to the excesses of the Dems, especially given the switch by Specter and the likely finalization of the election of Franken. Right now they are in danger of becoming irrelevant. I'm not sure that the base of the party could accept this "centering influence" for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is (unfortunately) the source.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by djm2

I really hope the party listens to Powell and can be a viable counter-balance to the excesses of the Dems, especially given the switch by Specter and the likely finalization of the election of Franken. Right now they are in danger of becoming irrelevant.

Agree completely. It's a struggle in the GOP now. The leaders that emerge from the frakus will tell the tale. I personally hope that someone more centrist emerges that can lead the party into the future. Perhaps someone who is fiscally conservative and socially moderate? I know they're out there.

I'm not sure that the base of the party could accept this "centering influence" for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is (unfortunately) the source.

Say again? Not sure what you mean by this.

[kathrynhr]

Most of you know I'm a conservative.

I'd be first in line to vote for Powell, should he ever run for a national office. I served under Powell. He's a good general, a good leader, and a good human being. Even if I felt he'd lead me in the exact opposite direction from where I most wanted to go, I'd be comfortable following any man like him, whose decent values were so clearly stamped upon his actions.

I would never vote for Cheney. Ever, for any reason. He is a war profiteer. He's been setting himself up to succeed at the expense of this nation's men, women, and businesses; and benefiting personally from the suffering of both this nation and other nations under our wing. If any decision that man ever made has happened to do us good, I believe it happened only by accident. There is something oily about him that has nothing to do with petroleum.

When it comes to politics: better a truthful man, with whom I may often disagree, than an opportunist whose opinions fall much more in line with mine.

[djm2]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

Most of you know I'm a conservative.

I'd be first in line to vote for Powell, should he ever run for a national office. I served under Powell. He's a good general, a good leader, and a good human being. Even if I felt he'd lead me in the exact opposite direction from where I most wanted to go, I'd be comfortable following any man like him, whose decent values were so clearly stamped upon his actions.

I would never vote for Cheney. Ever, for any reason. He is a war profiteer. He's been setting himself up to succeed at the expense of this nation's men, women, and businesses; and benefiting personally from the suffering of both this nation and other nations under our wing. If any decision that man ever made has happened to do us good, I believe it happened only by accident. There is something oily about him that has nothing to do with petroleum.

When it comes to politics: better a truthful man, with whom I may often disagree, than an opportunist whose opinions fall much more in line with mine.

What a wonderful comment about the man, and your beliefs.

[djm2]

Originally Posted by mriff

Agree completely. It's a struggle in the GOP now. The leaders that emerge from the frakus will tell the tale. I personally hope that someone more centrist emerges that can lead the party into the future. Perhaps someone who is fiscally conservative and socially moderate? I know they're out there.


Say again? Not sure what you mean by this.

You got me mriff. I was deliberately trying to be somewhat obtuse. Much of the power in the party appears to lie with the social conservatives who seem to often apply ideological litmus tests to the candidates. Whether they would accept a social moderate and fiscal conservative is questionable.

The other part of the comment is more personal to Powell himself. I would not be surprised if some have labeled him a traitor for the gross offense of having endorsed Obama, and that even if Jesus Christ came to them in their dreams and pronouinced that Powell was the annoited savior of the Republican Party they would not be able to accept him.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by djm2

You got me mriff. I was deliberately trying to be somewhat obtuse. Much of the power in the party appears to lie with the social conservatives who seem to often apply ideological litmus tests to the candidates. Whether they would accept a social moderate and fiscal conservative is questionable.

It's what I thought you were getting at. Just wanted to see it in print. Ideological litmus tests are, unfortunately, part of the game.

The other part of the comment is more personal to Powell himself. I would not be surprised if some have labeled him a traitor for the gross offense of having endorsed Obama, and that even if Jesus Christ came to them in their dreams and pronouinced that Powell was the annoited savior of the Republican Party they would not be able to accept him.

Sadly, I agree.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

Most of you know I'm a conservative.

I'd be first in line to vote for Powell, should he ever run for a national office. I served under Powell. He's a good general, a good leader, and a good human being. Even if I felt he'd lead me in the exact opposite direction from where I most wanted to go, I'd be comfortable following any man like him, whose decent values were so clearly stamped upon his actions.

I would never vote for Cheney. Ever, for any reason. He is a war profiteer. He's been setting himself up to succeed at the expense of this nation's men, women, and businesses; and benefiting personally from the suffering of both this nation and other nations under our wing. If any decision that man ever made has happened to do us good, I believe it happened only by accident. There is something oily about him that has nothing to do with petroleum.

When it comes to politics: better a truthful man, with whom I may often disagree, than an opportunist whose opinions fall much more in line with mine.

Wow. So nice to see these comments from someone who actually served under General Powell. I agree with your comments, but could not state them so eloquently. I'm glad you took the time to do so.

I also agree with your comments about Cheney. There's just something about him. I've not always felt this way though. I was a supporter of his for a long time. Until watching him over the last 8 years.

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by djm2

I was deliberately trying to be somewhat obtuse. Much of the power in the party appears to lie with the social conservatives who seem to often apply ideological litmus tests to the candidates. Whether they would accept a social moderate and fiscal conservative is questionable.

I am disturbed by some of the willful ignorance displayed in both parties, but especially in my own. I admit it: I don't understand some people's mental machinations.

You can't champion freedom on the one hand, and then abuse by oppressive laws those whose choices either do not agree with your own or inconvenience you in some way, on the other hand. Either we're all free to do as we please within the bounds of law and propriety, or we're not.

You can't campaign for religious rights e.g. "I want the Ten Commandments displayed in the classroom," and then trounce teachers who choose to introduce students to Islam, evolution, Native American history, etc., or who want to offer degrees in something you don't personally agree with. Either we all have the right to our own belief system, and to act upon it, and have it defended if necessary; or no one has that right.

To tie this back to the original topic, I would rather have a Powell in charge, who will do what's right for everyone even if it inconveniences himself (and me); than a Cheney who is far more likely to do what I prefer most, but is certain to do it at someone else's very great expense (never his own).

[Dawg]

I would have gladly voted for Powell for any office but now that hes on the Obama wagon I wouldn't cast a vote for dog catcher.

The republicans will be fine once this administration and this congress drives the country back a few more trillions in dept. Seems that congress is already bucking him om Gitmo

[djm2]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

I am disturbed by some of the willful ignorance displayed in both parties, but especially in my own. I admit it: I don't understand some people's mental machinations.

You can't champion freedom on the one hand, and then abuse by oppressive laws those whose choices either do not agree with your own or inconvenience you in some way, on the other hand. Either we're all free to do as we please within the bounds of law and propriety, or we're not.

You can't campaign for religious rights e.g. "I want the Ten Commandments displayed in the classroom," and then trounce teachers who choose to introduce students to Islam, evolution, Native American history, etc., or who want to offer degrees in something you don't personally agree with. Either we all have the right to our own belief system, and to act upon it, and have it defended if necessary; or no one has that right.

To tie this back to the original topic, I would rather have a Powell in charge, who will do what's right for everyone even if it inconveniences himself (and me); than a Cheney who is far more likely to do what I prefer most, but is certain to do it at someone else's very great expense (never his own).

Touche on that point!

Largely I agree with you regarding consistency in the values that one is espousing and recognizing that there may be implications that are uncomfortable. In my opinion, both parties suffer from that duplicity, although the Republican Party is perhaps a bit more plagued at this point.

And finally, I would vote today for Powell no questions asked.