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View Poll Results: What is your opinion of the new Arizona Immigration Law?
All for it. Catch and deport the illegals. 9 45.00%
I'm for it but do not want racial profiling. 4 20.00%
I think it gives the Police too much power and infringes on citizens' rights. 4 20.00%
I don't care, pass me another beer! 3 15.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-12-2010, 05:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by test54 View Post
In my opinion you are mainly wrong on both counts. No one is talking about having no laws, just having ones that do no completely hinge on violating citizens civil rights.

And where are the millions of people going to come from to take the low paying jobs in the construction, agricultural and other industries?


Closing the border is not practical and to continually state that it would solve the problem is simply believing in fairy tales....
i agree with you 100%
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:13 PM   #22
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last i checked i live in the united states of america not in the united states of arizon.

what they are doing is breaking one the amendments 13,14, or 15 dont care to look it up. but they are breaking them.

its you card everyone or no one. picking a gender, race, creed look is racial profiling.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:42 PM   #23
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Bordering on Insanity
If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.

If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

If you cross the U.S. border illegally you get:

a job,
a drivers license,
social security card,
welfare,
food stamps,
credit cards,
subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,
free education,
free health care,
a lobbyist in washington
billions of dollars worth of public documents printed in your language
the right to carry your country's flag while you protest
and, in many instances, you can vote.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonejunkie View Post
15% of the inmates in the Maricopa county jails are illegally in the country
Why are these people not deported?? They broke the law to get in the country, then broke another law while here. Um, hello?
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:20 PM   #25
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Why are these people not deported?? They broke the law to get in the country, then broke another law while here. Um, hello?
The argument is that if they deport them, they just come back and commit more crimes. If they're locked up, they know where they are. When their sentence is complete, they are deported... then the cycle repeats. *sigh*
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit View Post
last i checked i live in the united states of america not in the united states of arizon.

what they are doing is breaking one the amendments 13,14, or 15 dont care to look it up. but they are breaking them.

its you card everyone or no one. picking a gender, race, creed look is racial profiling.
Again, the Arizona law is based on the Federal law. The Feds won't enforce the federal law, so the state passed the same law giving the local police and sheriffs the ability to enforce it.

For those who are unaware, the current Homeland Security Secretary is Janet Napolitano, who just happens to be the former Arizona governor. When she was governor, her official position on border security was "it's a federal issue". Now that she is THE federal official responsible for border security, she doesn't seem to mind the unsecured border.

You are speaking of the 14th amendment? The equal protection clause? Glad you brought that up. Again, no one can be stopped solely for the purpose of seeing "their papers" or trying to determine their legal status. The police must have another reason to engage them.

Pop quiz time, boys and girls... you're driving down the road and let's say you're speeding... cop pulls you over... what is the first thing s/he asks you for? Answer: your driver's license, auto registration and proof of insurance ("your papers"). Guess what? That's the 14th amendment at work. EVERYBODY gets asked for ID.

Next question: Cops see you acting suspiciously in a dark alley. What does s/he ask of you? Answer: do you have any ID? Bingo... your papers. Equal protection clause.

Final question (double the point value because it's a two-part question): You are engaged by a police officer for a valid reason (traffic stop, or suspicious activity, etc) and asked to show your ID. You produce it. What can the cop determine about your legal status? Answer: since you provided valid "papers", you are automatically assumed to be here legally. End of "legal" status check. Second part: But what if you are Latino? Answer: It doesn't matter. You provided proof of your right to be in this country by providing your "papers". (SAME as the Anglo, Asian, African or any other person).

That, my friends, is how the 14th amendment works... we are all guaranteed equal protection under the law, regardless of anything - race, creed, color and national origin.

Last edited by fonejunkie; 05-12-2010 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:01 PM   #27
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Here's another thought... just read this:

Quote:
"Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country before attending to any issues."
Anyone care to guess where THAT came from? The answer may surprise you... Article 67 of Mexican "population" law.

Arizonaāxxx8364;xxx8482;s immigration law similar to Mexican law? - Phoenix Arizona news, breaking news, local news, weather radar, traffic from ABC15 News | ABC15.com

Does this make the Mexican authorities "racist"? Do they only seek "papers" from Anglos because they obviously stand out in the population? How is this situation any different from the US (and Arizona) law?

Last edited by fonejunkie; 05-12-2010 at 09:35 PM..
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonejunkie View Post

Final question (double the point value because it's a two-part question): You are engaged by a police officer and asked to show your ID. You produce it. What can the cop determine about your legal status? Answer: since you provided valid "papers", you are automatically assumed to be here legally. End of "legal" status check. Second part: But what if you are Latino? Answer: It doesn't matter. You provided proof of your right to be in this country by providing your "papers". (SAME as the Anglo, Asian, African or any other person).
actually they cant do this..... this is abuse of power or violation of the 4th amendment. they need a reason for them to ask you for id.

while they can walk to you and ask, you can walk away and they cannot do anything.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:06 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by fonejunkie View Post
The argument is that if they deport them, they just come back and commit more crimes. If they're locked up, they know where they are. When their sentence is complete, they are deported... then the cycle repeats. *sigh*
Excellent use of government, I mean my/your, money. SMFH.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit View Post
actually they cant do this..... this is abuse of power or violation of the 4th amendment. they need a reason for them to ask you for id.

while they can walk to you and ask, you can walk away and they cannot do anything.
You are correct, if the only reason for the engagement is to ask for ID. The context of this question was as a follow up to the earlier encounters... traffic stop, suspicious activity, etc. I have edited my post to include that stipulation.

Last edited by fonejunkie; 05-12-2010 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:18 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit View Post
last i checked i live in the united states of america not in the united states of arizon.

what they are doing is breaking one the amendments 13,14, or 15 dont care to look it up. but they are breaking them.

its you card everyone or no one. picking a gender, race, creed look is racial profiling.
I agree.

And there is no way to close the border entirely. Only way would be a Berlin type wall circa 1950's style. And I cannot see anyone wanting to pay for that.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:50 PM   #32
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I agree.

And there is no way to close the border entirely. Only way would be a Berlin type wall circa 1950's style. And I cannot see anyone wanting to pay for that.
even if they found the funds for it, we would not have illegals to build it so ...
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:03 AM   #33
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The latest Pew Research Center survey show overwhelming national support for Arizona's new immigration law... and at least nine other states are considering similar laws...

Source: link

Quote:
Broad Approval For New Arizona Immigration Law: Overview - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

The public broadly supports a new Arizona law aimed at dealing with illegal immigration and the lawxxx8217;s provisions giving police increased powers to stop and detain people who are suspected of being in the country illegally.

Fully 73% say they approve of requiring people to produce documents verifying their legal status if police ask for them. Two-thirds (67%) approve of allowing police to detain anyone who cannot verify their legal status, while 62% approve of allowing police to question people they think may be in the country illegally.

After being asked about the lawxxx8217;s provisions, 59% say that, considering everything, they approve of Arizonaxxx8217;s new illegal immigration law while 32% disapprove.

The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted May 6-9 among 994 adults, finds that Democrats are evenly split over Arizonaxxx8217;s new immigration law: 45% approve of the law and 46% disapprove. However, majorities of Democrats approve of two of the lawxxx8217;s principal provisions: requiring people to produce documents verifying legal status (65%) and allowing police to detain anyone unable to verify their legal status (55%).

Republicans overwhelmingly approve of the law and three provisions tested. Similarly, among independents there is little difference in opinions of the new Arizona law (64% approve) and its elements, which are viewed positively.

Young people are less supportive of the Arizona immigration law than are older Americans. Fewer than half (45%) of those younger than 30 approve of the new law while 47% disapprove. Majorities of older age groups xxx8211; including 74% of those 65 and older xxx8211; approve of the law.

However, even most young people approve of requiring people to produce documents verifying their legal status; 61% approve of this element of the law while 35% disapprove. Larger percentages of older age groups support this provision.

Last edited by fonejunkie; 05-13-2010 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #34
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<facepalm>

Arizona limits ethnic studies in public schools - CNN.com
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:14 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by fonejunkie View Post
The latest Pew Research Center survey show overwhelming national support for Arizona's new immigration law... and at least nine other states are considering similar laws...

Source: link

popular support does not always make things legal or moral. simply look at the South prior to 1968 for a great example.

or to W.'s re-election....
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Last edited by test54; 05-13-2010 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:04 PM   #36
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My input is I'm excited that I got invited to a fake party

But it's true, I've walked through the peace arch towards the US and never been hassled.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:16 PM   #37
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Incredible. I think this will cost the state dearly. In many ways.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:07 PM   #38
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Many of these so called "ethnic studies" only serve to create an environment of resentment and anger toward the government of the US. Many advocate returning large parts of the south west back to Mexico and some even support antigovernment means. Part of being an American is learning to be an American, not a hyphenated whatever, that some seem to think is so important.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:24 PM   #39
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Many of these so called "ethnic studies" only serve to create an environment of resentment and anger toward the government of the US. Many advocate returning large parts of the south west back to Mexico and some even support antigovernment means. Part of being an American is learning to be an American, not a hyphenated whatever, that some seem to think is so important.
lol, part of being an american is knowing the country was founded by immigrants.....

to learn about other cultures should be an essential part of the curriculum. If the lessons go to far and look like they are anti-american than crack down on that but do not simply stop all the classes.
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:52 AM   #40
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lol, part of being an american is knowing the country was founded by immigrants.....

to learn about other cultures should be an essential part of the curriculum. If the lessons go to far and look like they are anti-american than crack down on that but do not simply stop all the classes.
They do learn about it, its called history class. Ethnic studies are something completely different that serve create an atmosphere of superiority of their home land over the country they live in now. These types of classes have NO place in the PUBLIC school system.
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