[JSanders]

irresponsible, intrusive, embedded, impersonating.

smfh

at least the mystery is solved.

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by JSanders

Great idea to turn off those read receipts.

If I recall correctly, I believe some of those receipt options appeared in the BIS 2.3 upgrade early summer '07.

In this case, they just appeared in THIS upgrade. Would have made more sense for the upgrade to turn them off and then allow you to turn them on if you want them. The rest of the upgrade looks interesting, since now we can attach images that we could previously only save and view. Absolutely amazed that Verizon would allow the Media Manager load ringtones directly into the device without making customers pay.

[Steve]

Wirelessly posted (AT&T (Cingular) 8100 Pearl: BlackBerry8100/4.2.1 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

I think RIM wanted to make email read receipts look like PIN message confirmations.

Wouldn't have been a bad idea if the receipts weren't emails themselves.

Steve

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by JSanders

smfh

at least the mystery is solved.

Wait a minute, it's NOT solved. I was using Outlook Express to test the receipts and it appeared to be ok. Just tried it again with Outlook 2003 and RIM is STILL sending delivery receipts even though I've got everything turned off within the device. For the private email account I have set up with push email, RIM is revealing my private BB email address AND my identity. This is obviously unacceptable.

[John Clark]

But if someone sends you an email, don't they know your email address already?

(barring spammers since they don't get anything back from you anyway since the email address is spoofed)

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by John Clark

But if someone sends you an email, don't they know your email address already?

(barring spammers since they don't get anything back from you anyway since the email address is spoofed)

Not if the account is NOT your primary set on RIM’s server. That’s the scenario when you configure for more than one push email account (i.e. forward to the BB’s private email account and reply via the configured email account after the “pull” copy of the same email arrives on the device). In this scenario, not only do they get your BB’s private email address, but also your identity from the primary configured email account. And they also learn that that email address lands on a Blackberry, since RIM is forcing you to reveal it in the receipt message headers.

And some spammers WILL get receipts back this way (I’ve encountered a few, and some of them not only request receipts but also send multi-megabyte file attaches). But now RIM will be giving them a few additional addresses to add to their list, which will include the BB’s private email account.

[John Clark]

So, you have several different email accounts all being forwarded to one @verizon.blackberry.com address???

This works but isn't really the way the system was designed. The system was designed to have each separate email account added to the BIS system. That way you can send/receive/reply via each account.

Many here don't even use the dedicated blackberry email address. There is no method for checking it online and they get spam that you can't stop.

I suggest reconfiguring your email accounts to have each one added individually. You'll then be able to choose which address you want to send from each time you send an email.

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by John Clark

So, you have several different email accounts all being forwarded to one @verizon.blackberry.com address???

This works but isn't really the way the system was designed. The system was designed to have each separate email account added to the BIS system. That way you can send/receive/reply via each account.

Many here don't even use the dedicated blackberry email address. There is no method for checking it online and they get spam that you can't stop.

I suggest reconfiguring your email accounts to have each one added individually. You'll then be able to choose which address you want to send from each time you send an email.

I beg your pardon, but that IS the way the system was designed, and RIM has a LOT of documentation on it with detailed instructions how to set up forwarding with different ISP’s specifically to accomplish this function. Without (external) email forwarding, or a BES, it’s NOT push email. I already have each account individually configured. But even the primary email account will reveal the BB’s private email address.

And even for email accounts not configured in the device (i.e. my office email that I periodically have set for forwarding), it’s no one’s business what my identity and private BB email address is, and no one’s business whether or not I’m reading anyone’s email on my Blackberry.

[BallHawk3]

I'm quite confused, so I'm going to take a stab in the dark.

Just curious, how long have you had your "BIS" account? Is it new, or did you take it over from someone else.

Like someone else mentioned, you prob set it up incorrectly, by just forwarding all your e-mail addy's to the @verizon.blackberry.net. But you've mentioned clearly that you set up each individually, can you explain how? IF your forwarding e-mail addresses to your "main/device" email address (the blackberry.net) then you are not setting it up correctly. Actually technically, thats not setting it up at all. You haven't intergrated any e-mail address into the blackberry, thus you would be unable to send e-mails from any e-mail address of yours except the device blackberry.net address.

Another reason is when your sending emails (asuming you set it up the way your supposed to), your not sending it from the "wanted" or "prefered" email address. Make sure the "sending using" field is the address you want, and not on default.

Last reason, is a far scretch but its the first thing that popped up into my mind after reading the first few lines of your post. You could be on the old BIS. I dunno how that would happen, either something is bugged with verizon or you or someone else never hit the "upgrade" button when logging into BIS. That's how the old BIS used to be, recieve e-mails from any account you set up, but when your sending out, it will be your blackberry address with a reply-to field.

But, I am curious to how you set it up. That would prob help in figuring out this "problem" of yours.

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by BallHawk3

I'm quite confused, so I'm going to take a stab in the dark.

Just curious, how long have you had your "BIS" account? Is it new, or did you take it over from someone else.

Like someone else mentioned, you prob set it up incorrectly, by just forwarding all your e-mail addy's to the @verizon.blackberry.net. But you've mentioned clearly that you set up each individually, can you explain how? IF your forwarding e-mail addresses to your "main/device" email address (the blackberry.net) then you are not setting it up correctly. Actually technically, thats not setting it up at all. You haven't intergrated any e-mail address into the blackberry, thus you would be unable to send e-mails from any e-mail address of yours except the device blackberry.net address.

Another reason is when your sending emails (asuming you set it up the way your supposed to), your not sending it from the "wanted" or "prefered" email address. Make sure the "sending using" field is the address you want, and not on default.

Last reason, is a far scretch but its the first thing that popped up into my mind after reading the first few lines of your post. You could be on the old BIS. I dunno how that would happen, either something is bugged with verizon or you or someone else never hit the "upgrade" button when logging into BIS. That's how the old BIS used to be, recieve e-mails from any account you set up, but when your sending out, it will be your blackberry address with a reply-to field.

But, I am curious to how you set it up. That would prob help in figuring out this "problem" of yours.

I’ve had this service for over a year and never ran into a problem like this until I upgraded the device OS. It’s set up exactly correct, there aren’t a lot of options to choose, and none that can be changed at the server side (through the carrier’s customer web site) that have any effect on delivery confirmation receipts.

Your assumptions are all wrong, and you’re not even on the same carrier, so you’re not even close. I have all email addresses associated with their individual accounts as defined for the device, and a primary email account (and address) selected, so email identity is not an issue (with respect to configuration). While it’s true you can choose from which email address any new message is written, but you have NO choice when responding. We’re at the mercy of RIM’s mail servers whether or not it chooses the correct identity when responding. I have about three examples sitting in my device, and in my desktop mail client (where I can check the headers), that contradict what RIM has been telling customers, and even have seen two RIM tech support people contradict each other on that issue. I recorded each of them if you’d like to listen for yourself. Note that since there is NO option for responding from a different email account, either of the two conventions should always apply (one or the other), but I have proof that’s not the case (with headers to prove it). Bottom line is that we can’t trust RIM’s servers to NOT compromise our identities, but that’s a subject for another discussion.

Note however, that when you configure push email this way (as RIM suggests) you get two copies of every incoming email. The first one will always be in your BB’s private email account, and replies to those emails will always come from your primary configured email address. The second one will arrive some time later (12 to 15 minutes if you’re lucky) within that email account’s message applet. If you have a non-primary email account forwarding to your BB, you only have half-functionality, since replies won’t go back through the correct account until the “pull” copy of the same email arrives. It’s clumsy, but that’s all we can get without investing in BES.

But the immediate problem is that push email with BIS REQUIRES forwarding to the BB’s private email account. Physically impossible to get it any other way, unless if your primary email account happens to be on Gmail. And if you have any email accounts forwarding to those accounts, email senders quickly know not only your BB’s private email account, but your Gmail or other email account set up with the Blackberry.

[Dawg]

To the OP I am on verizon. I do not use the vzw account given to us I have 4 different accounts they all have there own envelope on my home screen. I forward nothing to the BB at all. I have all reciepts turned off. So how could my BB send the bbs address?

I know you think you have it set up like RIM wants you too but you dont have to be a lemming and set it up that way. Trust me the people that are trying to help you and you keep dissing are the ones who know how to help.

And I do not get a copy of any emails in my boxes

[JSanders]

Since you aren't asking for help with your 8700, and we don't have a "Black Helicopter Sightings" section, I'm moving this thead to Rants and Raves. You have your mind made up and we all are wasting our time trying to offer you assistance, when you really haven't asked for such. You have a complaint you'd you like to bring and make others aware of. Now you have done so.

I would respectfuly suggest you present your evidence and your recorded conversations to RIM or VZW.

[John Clark]

You DO have it setup incorrectly. It is NOT in the documentation to BOTH forward your mail to the @verizon.blackberry.net address. You do one or the other. The proper way is to simply setup each account in BIS. Forwarding to the BB address is ANOTHER way to set it up, but as has been suggested here, has it's downsides too.

You are faced with a choice. EITHER forward mail to the BB address OR setup each email account in BIS. You shouldn't be doing both.

Here's the RIM KB on how to stop duplicate messages....where they recommend turning off forwarding OR disabling the integrated account.

BlackBerry Search Results 0 67418935

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by Dawg

To the OP I am on verizon. I do not use the vzw account given to us I have 4 different accounts they all have there own envelope on my home screen. I forward nothing to the BB at all. I have all reciepts turned off. So how could my BB send the bbs address?

I know you think you have it set up like RIM wants you too but you dont have to be a lemming and set it up that way. Trust me the people that are trying to help you and you keep dissing are the ones who know how to help.

And I do not get a copy of any emails in my boxes

If you’re NOT forwarding TO your BB, and you’re not using a special or premium service (like Gmail, Godaddy’s BIS-friendly service, or BES) then you DON’T have push email. It’s that simple. However, this issue directly affects anyone who uses email forwarding to any email account that is picked up via BIS (private or otherwise).

I have this device set up exactly the way RIM suggested, and RIM is compromising my privacy. It’s that simple. I’m not going to spend a few hours on the phone troubleshooting another one of RIM’s problems, and not get a resolution. Already went through that with the disappearing message account icon issue (RIM is aware of it, it intermittently disables email access for BB users, but they keep closing the tickets marking them “resolved” anyway).

And I just completed another forwarding test. Configured one email account to forward to another (NOT to the BB’s private account). RIM just sent back a delivery confirmation from the second account (which is configured on but not forwarded to the BB), impersonating me again, going back to the original sender. Regardless of the account, RIM is revealing the forwarding target (private or otherwise), and I have all delivery and read receipt confirmation options turned OFF.

And no one’s really trying to help anyone here. All I see is some arrogant people, who have little technical ability, and no knowledge of what’s going on here, parroting the wrong answers. RIM has a serious privacy breach in progress and it needs to be fixed NOW.

[John Clark]

Wirelessly posted (BB 8860: BlackBerry8320/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

1 877 BLK BERR

Here's a quarter!

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by John Clark

Since, you've been nothing but rude to all the posters who have tried to help you I'm not going to post here again unless I decide to close the thread (which I'm close to doing since you've been so nice to everyone who's tried to help you.)

You DO have it setup incorrectly. It is NOT in the documentation to BOTH forward your mail to the @verizon.blackberry.net address. You do one or the other. The proper way is to simply setup each account in BIS. Forwarding to the BB address is ANOTHER way to set it up, but as has been suggested here, has it's downsides too.

You are faced with a choice. EITHER forward mail to the BB address OR setup each email account in BIS. You shouldn't be doing both.

Here's the RIM KB on how to stop duplicate messages....where they recommend turning off forwarding OR disabling the integrated account.

BlackBerry Search Results 0 67418935

No, you’re giving out wrong information again. I started describing how RIM was revealing private BB email addresses (for BIS push email) and now narrowed it down to RIM revealing ANY forwarding target that reaches a RIM BIS server.

The duplicate emails are an artifact of the only method to get push email without a special or premium email service, and the procedure came directly from RIM. Do you know what “push” email is why it’s important (or critical) for some people, and why the Blackberry is unique for that feature?

And you were rude first in this discussion, but I see you’ve conveniently snipped that piece out of this thread.

[Perfect Storm]

Originally Posted by traveler20

If you’re NOT forwarding TO your BB, and you’re not using a special or premium service (like Gmail, Godaddy’s BIS-friendly service, or BES) then you DON’T have push email. It’s that simple. However, this issue directly affects anyone who uses email forwarding to any email account that is picked up via BIS (private or otherwise).

There is no way to get mail to a BB that isn't push. Push does not imply instant, it is a protocol method. In fact all mail on the internet is pushed as SMTP is a push protocol




And JC, 1-877 numbers don't require a quarter. They're free

[traveler20]

Originally Posted by Perfect Storm

There is no way to get mail to a BB that isn't push. Push does not imply instant, it is a protocol method. In fact all mail on the internet is pushed as SMTP is a push protocol

No, “push email” is “pushed” to a client ideally (but not always) in real time. SMTP is “push” but POP3 is always “pull.” It’s physically impossible to get push email using POP3 protocol unless if you have a very fast poll schedule (like seconds apart). Although the BB is capable of pushing email to a device, if I have to wait 15 minutes to poll for it just isn’t “push” email.

[Perfect Storm]

Originally Posted by traveler20

No, “push email” is “pushed” to a client ideally (but not always) in real time. SMTP is “push” but POP3 is always “pull.” It’s physically impossible to get push email using POP3 protocol unless if you have a very fast poll schedule (like seconds apart). Although the BB is capable of pushing email to a device, if I have to wait 15 minutes to poll for it just isn’t “push” email.

Push refers to a method of delivery as server to client with no request from the client. That's it. That's the definition of a push protocol. End of story.

[juwaack68]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104)

**YAWN**