[JSanders]

Originally Posted by VidGameKing

This market of smartphones really really really sucks right now!!!!

So... that begs the question: When was it any better?

[VidGameKing]

In all actuality it never really was. It's as good as it's ever been because it hasen't had any hard times yet. On the other hand, there is a sea change in effect right now. we are going from smartphones to "super smartphones" if I may be so bold as to coin a new phrase. This transistionary period is full of incompatible specifications, and uneven hardware feature distribution. We have new hardware with old software, and old hardware with new software. So everything is in a constant state of flux. It's at this point in any electronic equipment market where a single company can enter and make one really solid peice of equipment that has the hardware, software, and carrier support that will set the standard for others to follow. but untill that happens everyone will hang out in their specific "camps". Thus a suckey market right now.

One downside to this particular market scenario is that if we stay in this state of flux for too long, people become jaded by the situation, and will leave the market to other more simpler solutions. Even if that means reverting to inferiour equipment. For example look at the 2004 to present lull in PDA sells or the 1984 video game market crash.

[JSanders]

Well I agree and disagree. PDA sales are lagging because people want more features, don't want to have carry a separate phone, etc. I know that was the case for myself and several of my friends until I got a BB, saw its capabilities, and now 5-6 of them are carrying one, including my wife who always wanted a laptop, but I talked her into a BB and she left her Palm in a drawer. I asked her before Christmas if she still wanted a laptop, and she laughed.

I agree the market is open to ONE really good manufacturer AND marketer. I do think the leader in this is yet to be seen as the consumer market opens up wider.

The bottom line for me is my BB is the best thing I have had yet. No problems, reliable, and a great phone device. It's more reliable than my PC on my desktop in some instances, albeit more limited, but I know I can pick it up and in 30 seconds have an email out, check the weather forecast, find a friend for lunch, etc.

It can get better, but right now is the best we've ever had.

[VidGameKing]

Yes, the best we ever had, but, like I said there is now more potential than ever to severely fail, or to severely excel. And because of that, companies are being careful, and in so doing, they themselves create a less favorable market.

This is the reason, if I may be allowed to bring this conversation full circle, that I am upset with RIM. Their inability to creatively assert better, newer technology which already exists and is easily available, in with their excellent, stable software is the reason I am upset with them. They have the ability to become that company. But they refuse to take it. They are playing to carefully and are hurting themselves and the market.

If we could run a Blackberry OS on a Cingular 8525 hardware, we would have the first highly successful xxx8220;Super SmartPhonexxx8221;. Featuring a creative stable OS, along with cutting edge modern technology.

Like This:

P.S. I photo-chopped it... Just an example, nobody get excited!!!

[LunkHead]

Disagree with the rant..... The BB does what it does and it does it better than any other device on the planet earth!

[VidGameKing]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

Disagree with the rant..... The BB does what it does and it does it better than any other device on the planet earth!

It's been doing that since 1999!!! I'm only asking that it does what it does, better than it does it right now.

Real upgrades, not gimicks.

A faster CPU, more memory, and a faster data connection would go much further to making the BB better than a silly camera, a GPS, and a memory card reader... And the OS upgrades in the 8800 could VERY easily have been applied to the 8700.

Thats the rant, do you disagree with that?

[LunkHead]

Biz 101.... Why on earth would RIM upgrade the 8700 to be the same as the device they just released??????? RIm is in bizz to make money not fold....

Just food for thought.... I agree the 8800 is lacking in some areas....

[VidGameKing]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

Biz 101.... Why on earth would RIM upgrade the 8700 to be the same as the device they just released??????? RIm is in bizz to make money not fold....

Just food for thought.... I agree the 8800 is lacking in some areas....

Bis 101.... Why would customers want gimmicks instead of real upgrades?

I'm not saying the 8800 is necessarily lacking at all. I think it took next to no real development to make it versus the 8700. In all actuality, the 8700 and the 8800 should have been released at the same time, that way someone more interested in the multimedia aspect would get the 8800, and those who are business oriented could choose the 8700.

But instead they market the 8800 as a 8700 upgrade, a replacement. I do not believe that is the case.

Like "Windows Me" was to Windows 98SE... (just not as unstable )

[LunkHead]

The 8800 has some great *new* features the 8700 does not have.... Save the media card and MM capability... On top of that the trackball in place of the trackwheel... RIM here here to make money....

Ya Me was a joke and Vista is going to follow I think....

[VidGameKing]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

The 8800 has some great *new* features the 8700 does not have.... Save the media card and MM capability... On top of that the trackball in place of the trackwheel... RIM here here to make money....

Ya Me was a joke and Vista is going to follow I think....

The three things I listed before; CPU, Memory, Connection. These make real upgrades.

UI advancments are software patches. and as such, should be offered for free for owners of the hardware. (Then again, Apple makes millions on OS-X "patches" every other year!)

The trackwheel is a diparture from their norm, and I salute them for that creativity. That is maybe my one caveot to my arguement for their inability to creativley aply new technology.

[LunkHead]

I am sure they are getting ready to charge us for the next BB (8900) (???) that will have *some* of your issues addressed..... RIM is here to make a buck and this is how they, and, every other company on the planet earth do it....

BUT.... I do see your point....

[VidGameKing]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

I do see your point....

Thank you

Interestingly enough, maybe itxxx8217;s good that RIM is xxx8220;baby-steppingxxx8221; their product upgrades! If they were to release a drastically upgraded device every year, or year and a half, that would cause customers to be upset with them too! Not to mention constant development strain!

You see to force someone to upgrade every year or so would cause customers to constantly upgrade their phones. Way too costly. Instead they offer minor (in comparison) upgrades, and stagger the complete upgrades to every other generation. That way those of us who have older than 8700 series BB can upgrade to the 8800, and those of us who have the 8700 can upgrade to the xxx8220;8900xxx8221; or whatever in a year or so from now!! Thus causing a longer useful life in comparison.

That and it would cause the xxx8220;need-to-havesxxx8221; to shell out big time, which goes to help fund the next devicexxx8217;s development.

Maybe RIM isnxxx8217;t a bunch of evil marketing idiots after all!

That being said, I still wish that there was a device that would cater to the market in which I currently live. Specificly I live in a 3G market, and therefore I demand the use of speed that 3G offers. And so I would like a device that can properly take advantage of that speed.

It's really not too much to ask is it?

[CanuckBB]

From the web tech seminar in January, it appears that RIM will skip the UMTS step altogether. There is an emerging standard based on EDGE that is more attractive. Real world data indicates that you never get the 3G max speed, just a slight increase over EDGE/EVDO. And for that you greatly sacrifice battery life.

You need to truly understand RIM's primary market. The demand is for a reliable e-mail/phone device that can withstand travel. Browsing is an interesting add-on. The majority of BB users will favour the longer battery life over the ability to surf from a 2" screen at broadband speed. I can tell you that I travel extensively and the ability to go on a 2-3 day trip and not have to carry a charger with me far outweighs the perceived lack of browsing speed.

[aristobrat]

Going off of what CanuckBB said, ...

Doesn't Cingular's BlackJack ship with two batteries specifically because when using GSM 3G, one wouldn't last a full day?

User reviews sound similar for the Cingular 8525:

How is your 8525 battery life? - Cingular/HTC - Cingular Customer Forums
Battery Life for the Cingular 8525 - Brighthand.com Smartphone and PDA Discussion Forums

There's leading edge and there's bleeding edge. What's out on the market now for GSM 3G sounds way more bleeding. RIM would have their butts handed back to them on a platter if they released a GSM product that couldn't make it through the day.

[JSanders]

Originally Posted by VidGameKing

The three things I listed before; CPU, Memory, Connection. These make real upgrades.

When I upgraded from a 7100 to a 8700, didn't I get a faster CPU, more memory and a faster connection?

Originally Posted by VidGameKing

I live in a 3G market, and therefore I demand the use of speed that 3G offers

Yea, and I live four blocks from a bakery, who I know has ALL the knowledge and equipment to make delicious caramel cakes, and I am sure there would be a market for them. But I can't force them to do so. I have no "right" to demand it.

And I, too, agree with much of your rant, I just think you have to remember that these devices can't do what they are not designed to do, and often we users whine and complain and attempt to modify them for what they were not intended, and then we are sorely disappointed when they don't perform up to par doing what they are not designed to do.

[VidGameKing]

I'm sorry everyone for dragging you all through this conversation.

I totally and unequivocally suck.

My brother-in-law literally just broke his 7100g... So I bought an 8800 to replace my 8700 so I can give him my 8700c...

I'm such a hypocrite...

But he needed a new BB, and I wanted 4.2... maybe I'll still go to something elese if I don't like the 8800 but then again... maybe I wont.

[JSanders]

Hey, welcome back. I think.

That is all really funny. (except the broken 7100!)

[Aroc]

Well the battery life problems are certainly a teething problem the current 3G network speed devices have to overcome. They need to consume less power period. Adding larger batteries (we went over this with the transition to color screens) is a stop gap measure. Better batteries would ne nicer (given save weight/size) even at a cost increase.

I think VidGameKing understands why the RIM solution (handhelds + server) is the best. e just wants to marry the best of RIM with the some of the features offered on other handhelds (3G speeds, better browsing).

I feel the issue with poor performance on 3G and WiFi is due to insufficient handheld processing power (CPU and RAM). The 3G handhelds should (ideally) be getting the same throughput as a 3G data card (for a notebook computer). They they aren't. The speeds are half as good, at best. Or at worst only slightly better than EDGE. This is not acceptable.

On the flip side the other devices (Windows Mobile, Symbian, Palm, OS X iPhone, etc) have some of these feature but have a piss-poor email implementation that lags behind the reliability of RIM. Again, for these devices to have 3G, browsing, tethering, etc - but fail to get email delivery correct is equally unacceptable..

Across the board all of the handhelds are unacceptable. RIM included. They just happen to have the best set of compromises, IMO.