BlackBerry Forums Support Community
              

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2006, 11:40 AM   #1
epark21
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Model: 8900
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 57
Default First NTP, now Visto?

Please Login to Remove!

Here we go again. I thought Visto was partnered w/ NTP. Wouldn't the NTP settlement supercede Visto's claim?

http://www.bbhub.com/2006/05/01/vist...-infringement/
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 12:49 PM   #2
whsbuss
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
whsbuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SE PA.
Model: 9800
OS: 4.6.0.304
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 2,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by epark21
Here we go again. I thought Visto was partnered w/ NTP. Wouldn't the NTP settlement supercede Visto's claim?

http://www.bbhub.com/2006/05/01/vist...-infringement/
This is what happens when you're a successful business; always in the crosshairs.
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 02:42 PM   #3
jibi
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Default

Visto has their own patents. They licensed NTP's patents for their own product so that their product would be compliant with those patents. This is a big concern right now and RIM will likely license the patents from Visto. However, working on RIM's side is the fact that Microsoft was the first company to be sued by Visto and there's a lot of money backing Microsoft on the issue.

With that said, Visto already successfully filed suit and won against Seven Networks for their product. The significance of that lawsuit was the fact that Seven Networks was formerly a firm in Europe who's development team went to Microsoft to build Magneto/DirectPush - see any issue there? During that case, Visto's patents were put through the USPTO process and many of the arguments and points were upheld.

RIM has likely been ready for this lawsuit for quite a bit, to be perfectly honest.

Read this article - might help RIM and other companies with prior art arguments against Visto's patents, which were awarded in 1989, if I'm not mistaken (maybe the early 90's though).

http://www.blackberryforums.com/showthread.php?t=32377
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 03:23 PM   #4
writergal
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Model: Pearl
Carrier: Rogers
Posts: 32
Default

*le sigh*
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 05:59 PM   #5
cytexone-andy
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Model: 7250
Posts: 4
Default

...and here's RIM's official response:

rim.com/news/press/2006/pr-01_05_2006-03.shtml
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 07:18 PM   #6
apple85
CrackBerry Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: California
Model: Tour
Carrier: Verizon
Posts: 730
Default

****ING VISTO I JUST READ THE ARTICLE!! UGH... I sent a really nasty email to the Visto PR lady from the article I read just to make myself feel better...
__________________
"I am always amazed at how these men walk into fires, when the rest of us run from them" - Rudolph Giuliani on Firemen
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 07:21 PM   #7
stealthx32
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Model: 8220
OS: 4.6.0.180
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 330
Default

Doesn't NTP own a significant stake in Visto?

Someone sue for anti-trust.
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 09:29 PM   #8
gonavyblue
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Model: 7100r
Posts: 21
Default

[QUOTE=jibi]Visto has their own patents. They licensed NTP's patents for their own product so that their product would be compliant with those patents. This is a big concern right now and RIM will likely license the patents from Visto. However, working on RIM's side is the fact that Microsoft was the first company to be sued by Visto and there's a lot of money backing Microsoft on the issue.

With that said, Visto already successfully filed suit and won against Seven Networks for their product. The significance of that lawsuit was the fact that Seven Networks was formerly a firm in Europe who's development team went to Microsoft to build Magneto/DirectPush - see any issue there? During that case, Visto's patents were put through the USPTO process and many of the arguments and points were upheld.

RIM has likely been ready for this lawsuit for quite a bit, to be perfectly honest.

Read this article - might help RIM and other companies with prior art arguments against Visto's patents, which were awarded in 1989, if I'm not mistaken (maybe the early 90's though).

[QUOTE]

RIM has no plans to license anything further from Visto/NTP. Most of the patents in issue with this latest effluent to spew from Wallace were issued in the 2000-2002 time span. The patents in question do even touch RIM technology. It's a calculated PR stunt to drive customers away from RIM.

The only pattern to be seen in this development is that Visto/NTP once again filed suit in chicken shit districts in the US where dopey juries suddenly become inflicted with a severe case of NIH sickness. [NIH- "not invented here" =. i.e any company that is not a US company will be slaughtered by a US jury.]

Ever read a RIM NDA for US entities? "The parties expressly waive the right to a trial by jury." Gee, I wonder why?
Offline  
Old 05-01-2006, 11:51 PM   #9
jibi
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Default

PR stunt or not, costs for legal recourse is expensive. did anyone ever come up with a finalized dollar amount spent by RIM on proving it was right?
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 02:15 AM   #10
brace! brace!
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
brace! brace!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Model: 8700g
Posts: 43
Default

Oh well, let's see what happens. Hopefully Microsoft will take most of the heat and get as many of the claims dismissed in court before a court case involving RIM takes shape sometime in 2007.

I won't hold my breath for any news on this front.

whsbuss, you're dead right. Successful technology businesses always seem to be the target of these tiny little companies no one has ever heard of before saying that they have a patent on this idea. Just look at all the cases Apple has fought (and won) over the iPod and iTunes.

brace! brace!
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 07:44 AM   #11
weazbo
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly
Model: 8700
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 20
Default Not again!

But I think RIM will not suffer as much this time. People and potental customers now know that RIM will do whatever it takes to keep the service going.
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 08:44 AM   #12
jibi
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weazbo
But I think RIM will not suffer as much this time. People and potental customers now know that RIM will do whatever it takes to keep the service going.
Doing whatever it takes is one thing, but I think a big player in any future litigation, assuming RIM is going to be smart about it, would be its investors. I think the last minute closed-door sessions with NTP made the investors quite anxious.

With them already winning their jury trial against Seven Networks for a similar product, and with the patent claims already being accepted by the USPTO, I find it quite astonishing that RIM is going to want to put the resources into fighting this again ...but it does appear they are gearing up to do so. Needless to say, there is prior art for the systems, but I'm not sure if that will cover the synchronization patents held by Visto. I do like that RIM has stated its looking into asserting its own patents against Visto, though.
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 08:46 AM   #13
Good_Guy
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Model: None
Carrier: Verizon/Sprint
Posts: 299
Default

The key difference between NTP and Visto is the fact the Visto actually has a product that is utilizing their patents. The fact that Visto is suing about everybody that has an email product (Seven, Smartner, Good, MSFT, Sproqit and now RIM) tells me that their business plan is it make money through litigation. I can say that I have rarely, if ever, run into Visto in a competitive situation. They are strictly a white-box solution that is, from speaking with customers, very limited in it's feature and functionality and I think that Visto knows that they are a non-entity in the enterprise space.

Looking at the patents in question over on BBHub, they look very broad

Last edited by Good_Guy; 05-02-2006 at 08:49 AM..
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 10:36 AM   #14
jibi
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Default

Well, the Smartner and Microsoft cases do, in fact, make sense. Keep in mind that Seven Networks bought Smartner as its international entity, from what I understand. The lawsuit against Seven should have covered Smartner in it. Given their progress against Seven Networks in the patent office and the upcoming victory against Seven, their move to fire against Microsoft was a no-brainer - Magneto was born out of the same people who made Smartner/Seven's product.

Atleast that's my take on it. The patents speak of a workspace synchronization. I agree that is extremely broad - who/what defines 'workspace'. But I do see that it could be applicable, especially if its already been ruled as such against a 'competing' product of RIM and Good. I don't think that the same prior art arguments that came up in a 'wireless email delivery' case would be applicable to 'workspace synchronization' but I could be wrong.

__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 11:53 AM   #15
jacobsaa
CrackBerry Addict
 
jacobsaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Model: 9000
OS: .297
PIN: N/A
Carrier: The New AT&T
Posts: 873
Default

When companies can't be competative with the rest, they rely on dirty tactics.
__________________
RETIRED: 7230, 7290, 8700G, 8320, 8900. 9000 BOLD

Politicin' 24/7
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 12:49 PM   #16
blkberryboy
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
blkberryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dearborn, MI
Model: Repl.
Carrier: Cingular/ATT
Posts: 1,146
Default

Those who can do....Those who can't or won't...sue!
__________________
JASON
iTurned to the darkside.
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:34 PM   #17
jacobsaa
CrackBerry Addict
 
jacobsaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Model: 9000
OS: .297
PIN: N/A
Carrier: The New AT&T
Posts: 873
Default

You can say that again. They have a history of suing. It's disgusting.
__________________
RETIRED: 7230, 7290, 8700G, 8320, 8900. 9000 BOLD

Politicin' 24/7
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 08:22 PM   #18
tankee531
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
tankee531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Model: 9800
OS: 6.0.0.x
PIN: xxxx
Carrier: Singtel
Posts: 375
Default

here we go again ...
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 08:55 PM   #19
KChung54
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denver
Model: 8300
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 49
Default

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

*sigh*
Offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 08:58 PM   #20
KChung54
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denver
Model: 8300
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 49
Default

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

Has anybody here had any experience with Visto, out of curiosity?
Offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


APPLE 630-0895-B  VRAM 128K X 8 BOARD CARD VINTAGE picture

APPLE 630-0895-B VRAM 128K X 8 BOARD CARD VINTAGE

$74.77



128K RAM - APPLE - ORIGINAL APPLE prototype BOARD picture

128K RAM - APPLE - ORIGINAL APPLE prototype BOARD

$408.75



APPLE 820-0522-A 630-0895-B LITE VRAM 128K X 8 BOARD  picture

APPLE 820-0522-A 630-0895-B LITE VRAM 128K X 8 BOARD

$149.99







Copyright © 2004-2016 BlackBerryForums.com.
The names RIM © and BlackBerry © are registered Trademarks of BlackBerry Inc.