BlackBerry Forums Support Community
              

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-26-2005, 01:02 PM   #21
blkberryboy
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
blkberryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dearborn, MI
Model: Repl.
Carrier: Cingular/ATT
Posts: 1,146
Default

Please Login to Remove!

BEAR...From the article:

Originally Posted by Good_Guy
NTP says it plans to ask U.S. District Judge James Spencer, who presided over the 2002 trial, to reinstate an order that would halt BlackBerry service for non-government users.
__________________
JASON
iTurned to the darkside.
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:04 PM   #22
Good_Guy
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Model: None
Carrier: Verizon/Sprint
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamcrn
i am sorry you are right it is federal but it is a non criminal matter so there are alot of outlets and procedures..sort of like a deathrow inmate..it could take years
It is going on three years now. The appeals are running out, though you are right, it could continue on. However, regardless of the Kool Aid coming from Waterloo, it is having an effect on their business. Combined with Exchange SP2 and MSFP, it is going to get tougher for RIMM the longer this drags out.
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:04 PM   #23
jibi
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
Kind of makes me wonder what all of those BlackBerry users in Congress, the Executive and Military are gonna do if there shutdown happens.
the government is not affected.

and Good_Guy, the article you posted was the same one released 2 weeks ago. i'm curious what all has been released thats new information in the last 2 weeks since that announcement on the 14th. looks like the online press just keeps reprinting the same crap (err, 'updating' it).

simply put, the district court judge cannot reissue the same injunction w/o further reviewing the information that has come to light since 2002 (which is a lot). this includes the newly rejected patents by the USPTO - all of which were rejected with the newly formed procedural for first-office rejections (so its not longer just a 'reject first, reissue latter' type ruling by that office).

i wish people would stop buying into the crap thats being spilled into the news by NTP, a Good Technology investor.

...after all is said and done, and if RIM gets out of this w/o owing NTP a penny, then i really hope they file a defamation lawsuit against them for intentionally hurting their business.
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.

Last edited by jibi; 10-26-2005 at 01:09 PM..
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:07 PM   #24
joginder
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: AZ
Model: Passp
Carrier: ATT
Posts: 1,123
Default

I hope they do something about it. This NTP is driving making everyone lose sleep. Do i have to take the service from Vodafone and Rogers and then use roaming in US

BlackBerry Maker Denied High Court Appeal
Wednesday October 26, 1:54 pm ET
BlackBerry Maker Is Denied Emergency Supreme Court Appeal to Put Patent Suit on Hold


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The maker of BlackBerry e-mail devices on Wednesday lost an emergency Supreme Court appeal which sought to put a long-running patent suit against the company on hold.
Research In Motion Ltd. is appealing an infringement verdict to the high court and wanted the lawsuit stalled while the appeal was pending. Chief Justice John Roberts denied the company's request for a stay, without comment.

ADVERTISEMENT


Shares of the Canadian company's stock slid more than 6 percent, falling $3.66 to $53.74 on the Nasdaq Stock Market before trading in RIM was halted in the early afternoon.

Lawyers for RIM had argued its business would be harmed irreparably if the court did not delay the return of the case to the lower court where the company was found guilty in 2003 of violating patents held by NTP Inc.

The loss on Wednesday, which had been expected, does not say anything about a more significant issue, whether the Supreme Court will hear RIM's appeal.

The decision comes just days after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit also refused to issue a stay in the case during RIM's appeal.

In August, the appeals court directed the trial judge in the case to examine the impact of certain errors on the jury's verdict. The lower court will also reconsider a dispute over whether the companies reached a settlement earlier this year.
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:18 PM   #25
Good_Guy
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Model: None
Carrier: Verizon/Sprint
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
And what happens if BB service is shut down? NTP will end up with much less or nothing at all. NTP doesn't make a competing product. Lawyers (and don't even try to defend them). Extortion is such an ugly word.
No argument there. The shut-down is leverage for NTP to exto...uhh..get a bigger settlement from RIM. If the injunction stands, RIM has nothing to use as leverage outside of the fact that if they shut down, NTP gets nothing. The work around remains to be seen.

Another scenario would be RIM shuts down for a day or two to flip over to the "work around".
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:32 PM   #26
Good_Guy
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Model: None
Carrier: Verizon/Sprint
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jibi
the government is not affected.

and Good_Guy, the article you posted was the same one released 2 weeks ago. i'm curious what all has been released thats new information in the last 2 weeks since that announcement on the 14th. looks like the online press just keeps reprinting the same crap (err, 'updating' it).

simply put, the district court judge cannot reissue the same injunction w/o further reviewing the information that has come to light since 2002 (which is a lot). this includes the newly rejected patents by the USPTO - all of which were rejected with the newly formed procedural for first-office rejections (so its not longer just a 'reject first, reissue latter' type ruling by that office).

i wish people would stop buying into the crap thats being spilled into the news by NTP, a Good Technology investor.

...after all is said and done, and if RIM gets out of this w/o owing NTP a penny, then i really hope they file a defamation lawsuit against them for intentionally hurting their business.
Actually, the news I posted was from today when the Supreme Court. As for the injunction, actually, the judge can only apply information provided at the new trial. It isn't an appeal process when it get sent back down, as far as I know. Any patent attorneys out there?
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:47 PM   #27
jibi
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_Guy
Actually, the news I posted was from today when the Supreme Court. As for the injunction, actually, the judge can only apply information provided at the new trial. It isn't an appeal process when it get sent back down, as far as I know. Any patent attorneys out there?
Quote:
RIM would also expect NTP to request a new injunction at that time. Notwithstanding the recent media stories and speculation on this matter, the legal process to secure a new injunction would need to be restarted by NTP and the courts would need to make new decisions on the merits of granting an injunction based on current facts and substantial change in circumstances from the last time it considered NTP’s injunction request. NTP appears however to believe that references to a potential injunction in media articles will provide them with a negotiating advantage by creating pressure on RIM through RIM's stakeholders. RIM regrets any confusion or inconvenience that may have stemmed from this situation and appreciates its customers understanding as this ongoing matter proceeds through the legal process.
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 02:13 PM   #28
joginder
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: AZ
Model: Passp
Carrier: ATT
Posts: 1,123
Default

I am not that worried about my BB service being down for a day or two.. I am just scratching my balls anf thinking about what the hack this one tinny tinny company trying to prove that their major artery has been blocked..
Give me a break. China/India went around and created substitue of every product that is patented and still no one goes after them. It is the attrney/client hunger that keeps this artificial feeding tube wet.
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 02:24 PM   #29
NJBlackBerry
Grumpy Moderator
 
NJBlackBerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
Model: SGS7
Carrier: Verizon
Posts: 27,948
Default

One interesting scenario - RIM is slapped with an injunction to shut down all non-Government customers. They decide, instead, to shut down ALL customers. Congress. The White House. The US Military. Everyone.

How soon would the phone calls to NTP go out suggesting some nice arbitration?

I like it.....
Offline  
Old 10-26-2005, 02:54 PM   #30
Frank Castle
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
Frank Castle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MA
Model: 9930
PIN: PM Me!
Carrier: VZW
Posts: 1,073
Default

Well all this uncertainity just makes mangement get all ansy .. getting another solution up and running is the easy part .. what do I tell 1500+ people to do .. go buy this other device as RIM is down for unknown time? I wish the carriers would step in and say how they plan to credit / manage a whole lot of ticked off people that potentionally will have a dead SOS blackberry.
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 07:28 AM   #31
blkberryboy
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
blkberryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dearborn, MI
Model: Repl.
Carrier: Cingular/ATT
Posts: 1,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jletendre
I wish the carriers would step in and say how they plan to credit / manage a whole lot of ticked off people that potentionally will have a dead SOS blackberry.
I think that is a huge issue to consider from the consumer side. Our contract for service was with the carrier not RIM or NTP. Best case in my opinion is that they sell us a handset at hopefully a reasonable price to use while we wait for a settlement. I didn't have to commit to BB service for a year with T-Mo, I had to sign up for cell service. Cell service will still be working, thus I can make telephone calls.



This is going to be a nightmare for the carriers I would think. On one hand they are kind of stuck in the middle between RIM and NTP, yet when it comes to me fulfilling my contract they look to be holding all the cards.



I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see where the carriers have broken the contract with me, but then again I never would have assumed I could sue McDonalds for a hot cup of coffee spilled when I put it between my legs either...I'll just wait and see.
__________________
JASON
iTurned to the darkside.
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 11:53 AM   #32
Bear
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Model: 7290
Posts: 49
Default

Ah...had fully missed that one. How convenient.

And yeah, if this goes down poorly, this is gonna be a nightmare for carriers. I'm tempted to call my TMOB rep to see if they have a backup plan or alternative for those of us who might be effected.
__________________
TANSTAAFL
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 12:04 PM   #33
teamcrn
CrackBerry Addict
 
teamcrn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CT & NYC
Model: 8320
PIN: ASK ME
Carrier: Tmobile
Posts: 526
Default

well i only have data on my bb and my contract is up so hey they shut it off i will have a treo untill the get it fixed..lmao.. i guess i will have to get use to the reset button
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 12:12 PM   #34
blkberryboy
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
blkberryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dearborn, MI
Model: Repl.
Carrier: Cingular/ATT
Posts: 1,146
Default

Team,
You bring up a valid point. Those users who only have a BB with data access only have a bigger issue to hammer out with their provider. Im not a lawyer, but wouldnt this fall under the "Force Majure" clause, rather an act of god, meaning outside bot parties control? So would carriesrts consider just letting you out of contracts? Highly doubt it, but unless thay can supply an equivelent I would thinkthey would be in breech of contract?

ARGHHHHH
__________________
JASON
iTurned to the darkside.
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 12:17 PM   #35
teamcrn
CrackBerry Addict
 
teamcrn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CT & NYC
Model: 8320
PIN: ASK ME
Carrier: Tmobile
Posts: 526
Default

yeah i guess so..but even if you have voice and data and a part of the service is no longer there you should be able to get out of your contract..its dicey hopefully it doent get that far...because i love my bb... i hug it ever night before i go to bed....rotflmao
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 03:46 PM   #36
guinda35
CrackBerry Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: South Texas and San Francisco
Model: z10
Carrier: att
Posts: 870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey@12mile
Good is a company in trouble, which is unfortunate because they actually do have a rather nice product. Until Good can figure out how to get it's warez on durable handhelds, it will always be in the RIM shadows.

I don't think anybody should really be worried about US networks having to shutdown their RIM connections. RIM really is in good shape with regards to this lawsuit, and only stand to benefit further from this point on. The deal was made, NTP got greedy and now they are going to lose big time because the US courts seem to have had enough of NTP's greed in this case. As far as the courts are concerned NTP made the deal for $450M and once they saw how fast RIM jumped on that number they must have thought it was too easy and went back to appeals for more... Like a friend of Ted Rogers says... they are sucking and blowing at the same time...

RIM won't get shutdown in the US... it's just typical over-reporting by our wonderful media... I swear in the media its a competition of who can exagerate the most to try and tweak peoples eyes... all of this RIM shutdown is waaay over-played, waaay blown out of proportion. I can almost guarantee that most of the people in the courtroom... judges, lawyers, maybe even NTP people themselves have Blackberry's... do you really think the judges are going to shut it down?
I agree with you Corey that RIM won't get shut down in the US. the courts just won't shut down a company making so much money, especially when it's willing to negotiate, and where NTP can always count on a pot of money after the dust settles to pay itself with if it wins in the end. However I don't see where you're getting that NTP is reneging on the deal out of greed. I'd like to believe so, but I don't see that NTP has been tagged as greedy by anyone, outside of Rim's lawyers of course, let alone the courts. Do you have a link? The negotiations, and the deal, are much more complicated than $450M, here take it, no I won't.

The parties are absolutely tight-lipped on what's happening in negotiations. For all we know, it's Rim who is at fault in the breakdown of the deal. That's why Rim stock has tanked of late. If it was clear that the deal has broken down because of NTP's greed, Rim's stock would be flying high and NTP's lawyers would be guilty of malpractice.
__________________
"I never met a man I didn't like."
Will Rogers
Redneck

Last edited by guinda35; 10-27-2005 at 03:54 PM..
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 03:52 PM   #37
corey@12mile
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in a house...
Model: lots
Carrier: Rogers
Posts: 1,148
Default

There was an agreed settlement for 450M. Read post 13 in this thread. NTP backed out saying that RIM was not abiding by the agreement and now NTP wants more money than this.

It's like I hit your car, ask how much money you want not to goto police and insurance, you say 10 grand, I say done. What does this leave you thinking... he didn't even blink at 10G, should I have asked for more? This is exactly what NTP was thinking when the 450M figure was made. RIM didn't even have to think about it, now NTP wants more.
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 04:01 PM   #38
guinda35
CrackBerry Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: South Texas and San Francisco
Model: z10
Carrier: att
Posts: 870
Default

Well you don't know whether NTP is right in arguing that RIM was not abiding by the agreement do you? I'm sure the agreement involves a lot more than $450M. Like licensing fees, and royalty fees, per unit sold, for example. the $450M is only for the units already sold. NTP is also suing for units to be sold in the future. We don't know whether RIM is reneging on that part of the agreement.

And of course NTP is now asking for more money. If RIM reneged on future sales royalties, it should pay for dragging this mess out.
__________________
"I never met a man I didn't like."
Will Rogers
Redneck
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 04:17 PM   #39
guinda35
CrackBerry Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: South Texas and San Francisco
Model: z10
Carrier: att
Posts: 870
Default

Corey:

"It's like I hit your car, ask how much money you want not to goto police and insurance, you say 10 grand, I say done. What does this leave you thinking... he didn't even blink at 10G, should I have asked for more? This is exactly what NTP was thinking when the 450M figure was made. RIM didn't even have to think about it, now NTP wants more."

You're lucky you're not a lawyer. You would have been sued for malpractice, if you thought the NTP-RIM dispute was this simple, and you would have blown the settlement as NTP's lawyer. I'll give you your due when you discuss the 8700. You obviously know what you're talking about. Not so when figuring out the strength of parties in a complex lawsuit. Unfortunately this issue is not as simple as you paint it. Certainly Wall Street doesn't think so. I expect lawyering is beyond your pay-grade.
__________________
"I never met a man I didn't like."
Will Rogers
Redneck

Last edited by guinda35; 10-27-2005 at 04:25 PM..
Offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 07:45 PM   #40
corey@12mile
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in a house...
Model: lots
Carrier: Rogers
Posts: 1,148
Default

I would never guess it to be that simple... but to put it in layman's terms... that's what it's all about... the number was set, and that agreement actually included a lifetime license or something to that degree for RIM with NTP. That settlement was supposed to end this whole thing... give NTP a boatload of cash to shut them up, free RIM of the worries they have with NTP. In a nutshell that was the settlement.

I am not a lawyer, and you are definately right, I would blow the case... I am just some lowly ol' computer guy trying to make a buck with some technology... ok... lots of bucks. But when I do the little bit of reading that I do, with the little bit (stress little) of legal knowledge I have... that is my take on it.

NTP was expecting a fight about the cash, and when RIM didn't blink and agreed to it, NTP thought maybe we should go for more... that was too easy.

cd.
Offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Vintage MAC Tools Inside Micrometer Set in Case/ With Manual picture

Vintage MAC Tools Inside Micrometer Set in Case/ With Manual

$100.00



Vintage Mac Tools AW343 Series 1/2 Pneumatic Impact Driver  picture

Vintage Mac Tools AW343 Series 1/2 Pneumatic Impact Driver

$50.00



Vintage Mac Warehouse  3.5†Floppy Disk Solar Powered Calculator Company Swag picture

Vintage Mac Warehouse 3.5†Floppy Disk Solar Powered Calculator Company Swag

$74.00



VINTAGE MSI McHenry Systems MAC IH ELECTRONIC DISTANCE METER SURVEYING picture

VINTAGE MSI McHenry Systems MAC IH ELECTRONIC DISTANCE METER SURVEYING

$350.00



Vintage MAC USA 18-6 XDM Six Points 18 MM Socket 3/8

Vintage MAC USA 18-6 XDM Six Points 18 MM Socket 3/8" Drive Used Excellent Condi

$14.99



Vintage White APPLE IMAC EMC 1857 15

Vintage White APPLE IMAC EMC 1857 15" 20GB HDD Mac OSX 10.2 256MB RAM 500MHz

$85.00







Copyright © 2004-2016 BlackBerryForums.com.
The names RIM © and BlackBerry © are registered Trademarks of BlackBerry Inc.