[jibi]

Sorry, misread your question (and didn't read bpritch's completely). Simply put, bpritch is misinformed. If Wi-Fi is considered a form of 3G, which in this case it could be, then sure. Otherwise, no. There's no UMTS or HSDPA functionality on the 8320. I have one sitting one foot away from me, so trust me on this.

The second link you put up was certainly interesting, as it's an 8800 form-factor with UMTS. This looks to be a screenshot from the simulator though, but still interesting. There is no 8807 device, to my knowledge, but perhaps they've changed around the naming convention.

[theBorg]

Originally Posted by jibi

There's no UMTS or HSDPA functionality on the 8320.

That's what I thought. It's nice to see, however, that RIM does have some models, albeit Asian market, with UMTS radios. I think WiFi + Edge would keep me satisfied for 2 years.

Originally Posted by jibi

I have one sitting one foot away from me, so trust me on this.

!!!!!!!


RE: the 88xx UMTS device - that comes from the blackberry.com developer support site. I figured that would be a good place to poke around to find references to future features.

[jibi]

It would appear the model to be released in August, assuming that's an accurate date, will be the 8820 not the 8320. Expect the Wi-Curve to be available in early Q4.

[gziz]

why would you tell ppl you have the 8320 within a few feet of you? clearly if you do have one you or the person that gave it to you signed a NDA. just to prove your point? and things change, wasnt the 8800 supposed to have wifi but they took it out of that product.

[theBorg]

Originally Posted by gziz

why would you tell ppl you have the 8320 within a few feet of you?

Err... To share the excitement. To help people make wisely timed purchase decisions. To bring some sense to all the rumors about what functionality is where.

Originally Posted by gziz

wasnt the 8800 supposed to have wifi but they took it out of that product.

This is the RUMOR MILL, brah.

[bpritch]

Well, the only way to know is to wait and see I suppose. You say you're right, I say I'm right. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. All I can say is what I've heard from my husband and the material that they've sent out to employees. But hey, perhaps T-Mobile lies to their employees and gives them completely wrong information in order to confuse them and make it harder for them to get the information needed to help customers. Anything is possible.

[jibi]

Originally Posted by gziz

why would you tell ppl you have the 8320 within a few feet of you? clearly if you do have one you or the person that gave it to you signed a NDA. just to prove your point? and things change, wasnt the 8800 supposed to have wifi but they took it out of that product.

I'm under NDA under some circumstances with a few companies, but TMO is not one of these (not for the physical device possession, atleast, as it was not obtained through them). I'm more than aware of the implications of giving information under NDA, which is why I've refrained from a wealth of information that I do know. I also write for two fairly popular blogs and know what can and cannot be stated publically. The information I share, when I do share, has never been obtained from behind the closure of an NDA.

[Mark_Venture]

Originally Posted by jibi

It would appear the model to be released in August, assuming that's an accurate date, will be the 8820 not the 8320. Expect the Wi-Curve to be available in early Q4.

Wi-Curve in early Q4? My T-Mobile rep just called me yesterday, he said he has them ordered for me and my team, so as soon as they are available, we'll get them... When I asked a time frame... I asked Sept/Oct? he said yes. Sept was the time frame he and the RIM rep told us when they visited two or three weeks ago...

The 8820 was not mentioned... hmm...

[jetspeedz]

is wifi really that big of a deal to some of you guys? i mean if you at home why be on the bb? and how many free wifi hot spots are there without some fees?

[TheRFGuy]

Originally Posted by bpritch

If that information is wrong, T-Mobile is not only telling their reps the wrong information, but distributing it company-wide in error. My husband works for T-Mobile and they had a BB rep there last week. They are expecting to release the Curve in late August. It will have @home, wifi, 3G enabled. 3G is planned for fall.

No no....TMO's 8300 seriers will NOT be 3G. 3G planned for Q4 but only voice is provisioned. Sadly, they will not do data at 3G. It's a little sad TMO is so focused on Myfaves and not 3G.

[TheRFGuy]

Originally Posted by theBorg

Good questions. I edited the original post to make it more clear.

Jibi: One was a store floor manager, the other a store lackey. The @Home was additionally confirmed by a 3rd rep from tier 1 customer support on a call.

Shona: No, I'm not saying the T-Mo Curve will be 3G capable. I guess it will not be 3G since the network isn't there.

It's unclear to me whether a phone with GSM / Edge can become 3G capable via a firmware update. Technically it's possible if the transceiver is a Software Defined Radio instead of custom, dedicated design.

Yeap...spectrum will not be cleared except for 2-3 cities (markets) this year and TMO is using their 3G spectrum to offload their congested 2G network. Voice..voice...voice only!

[theBorg]

Originally Posted by jetspeedz

is wifi really that big of a deal to some of you guys? i mean if you at home why be on the bb? and how many free wifi hot spots are there without some fees?

People still have to pay for WiFi!? Well my whole town has a Google wireless network and I can't think of a cafe/bar that isn't free. Maybe you gotta pay at some airports.

WiFi is a big deal to me because 90% of the time I'm using data on the BB I'm under a WiFi network. Why pay for cellular broadband, which is ridiculously expensive, when there's already a wireless network available? EDGE should be plenty sufficient to fill in the other 10% at a savings of $20 + per month.

Why on the BB? Well, why be stuck to a computer?

[theBorg]

Originally Posted by TheRFGuy

Yeap...spectrum will not be cleared except for 2-3 cities (markets) this year and TMO is using their 3G spectrum to offload their congested 2G network. Voice..voice...voice only!

Hey, RF. I've seen you and jibi saying the spectrum isn't cleared. But the press releases for the auction said it's a new batch of frequencies. Are there any reports about who's sitting on T-Mo's 3G spectra? I've seen no sources on that.

[Wishdemon]

I thought those freqs were occupied by public safety/military/etc....but I could be wrong!

[Mark_Venture]

Originally Posted by jetspeedz

is wifi really that big of a deal to some of you guys? i mean if you at home why be on the bb? and how many free wifi hot spots are there without some fees?

Hotspot @home added to plan for $10 intro price (19.99 after promo period)... for unlimited VOIP calls while at home... Also "Plus it works in many places you already go, including 8,000 U.S T-Mobile HotSpot locations, such as Starbucks, Borders Books and Music, airport locations and certain hotels."

Imagine... UNLIMITED voice calls (due to voip) in those locations plus home... those who talk a lot.. or work from home, etc... could use their BB with Hotspot@home/VOIP and not have to select a higher cost voice calling plan.

[jibi]

Originally Posted by bpritch

Well, the only way to know is to wait and see I suppose. You say you're right, I say I'm right. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. All I can say is what I've heard from my husband and the material that they've sent out to employees. But hey, perhaps T-Mobile lies to their employees and gives them completely wrong information in order to confuse them and make it harder for them to get the information needed to help customers. Anything is possible.

Here's a sketch obtained by Brighthand from the FCC filings for the device that will be released; as you can see, it does not look like an 8320.

FCC Approves BlackBerry with Wi-Fi

[jibi]

Originally Posted by TheRFGuy

3G planned for Q4 but only voice is provisioned. Sadly, they will not do data at 3G. It's a little sad TMO is so focused on Myfaves and not 3G.

I don't think they're 'focused' on myFaves - it's just something extra to offer that has very little overhead on them aside from initial development and support of the billing changes. It's a very inexpensive way for them to drum up an extra offering and lose very little money in the process.

As for 3G, as we've both mentioned, they can do very little at this point in time. Their hands are tied, completely at the mercy of others. If the current inhabitants could not vacate the spectrums, they are given somewhere in the neighborhood of a decade to do so. I have not heard anything about the 3G network being voice-only, but I'd have to wonder if this had to do more with device availability and FCC approval for new devices that would work on their frequencies (and those of their European counterparts).

Look for T-Mobile to offer the first true converged UMTS device when they finally release one - compatible with the UMTS networks in the United States (T-Mobile, AT&T), Europe and Asia.

Originally Posted by jetspeedz

is wifi really that big of a deal to some of you guys? i mean if you at home why be on the bb? and how many free wifi hot spots are there without some fees?

With no traditional POTS line or internet (cable, DSL) infrastructure in America, they obviously lack in an area that others, such as AT&T and Verizon, triumph. Obviously they jumped at the ability to get their foot in these formerly closed doors - $10/mo for unlimited calling and no additional long distance fees is a lot cheaper than most other home phone services, no? While a lot of us no longer use home phone lines and dual-purpose our cellular devices for this use, think of this as an extended feature for your cellular account that could replace your home service (in terms of at-home use) with an added layer of convenience at a lower cost.

Originally Posted by theBorg

Hey, RF. I've seen you and jibi saying the spectrum isn't cleared. But the press releases for the auction said it's a new batch of frequencies. Are there any reports about who's sitting on T-Mo's 3G spectra? I've seen no sources on that.

From an article in 2001 on the initial proposal of the spectrums for 3G services:

"The FCC is poised to identify spectrum for 3G services next month, but the airwaves proposed are already being used by the Defense Department and another band is being used for video services at schools and health care centers."

US proposes bill to sell Pentagon's 3G spectrum - 3g news

There are plenty other articles on the internet similar.

[Galvatron]

Originally Posted by jibi

They've been planning 3G for a long time, to be perfectly honest, as it's their natural evolution forward. The FCC had the auction last year where they spent $4b (I think that was the number) on the split spectrums (1700 and 2100mhz, if I recall correctly). When I met with TMO's top engineers a few months back, I was told that UMTS equipment was being put in place for major markets but the current occupants of these spectrums would have to vacate first before they could turn anything up. These occupants included government entities, military and intelligence agencies, private companies, etc.; TMO could NOT force these occupants to vacate (and was responsible for financial aid for their departures, if required). A later update revealed that these departures had progressed better than expected, but I still don't see Q4 this year being more than just an initial beta/trial period for 3G/UMTS for TMO. They plan to start the release of UMTS to major markets in 2008 and finish the rollout by 2010.

Also, nevermind the fact that manufacturers will need to come up with devices that support Europe and Asian UMTS networks, T-Mobile's multi-band UMTS network and Cingular's UMTS network - anyone aware of such a device existing already?

Like I said, I will admit when I'm wrong. Given some of the people I've spoken to about it, unless I'm being blatantly lied to, I think of them as fairly knowledgeable on the subject.

rim8525 and Nokia's N95 are umts and hsdpa capable

Mobile phones, Internet and Email - Official T-Mobile website

[jetspeedz]

I don't have a home phone either b/c i use my BB and i have more then enough minutes.. i can see where wifi and VoIp might be beneficial to some just not me... i would be happy with 3G or faster personally...

[zero7404]

correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't wifi operate at high frequency ? i think it's 2.4 GHz ?

i'm not sure if i'd want to have a mobile phone with active wifi and bluetooth connections up against my head.

i guess in the heirchey of communication frequencies and their 'harmfulness' to living tissue, i think the order (from lowest to highest) is -

mobile phone reciever (antenna)
bluetooth
wifi

just one up against your head is relatively harmless, but now we're talking all 3 transmitting at the same time....i dunno.