[hrhenry]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

...
Fact is, the Pearl was and remains RIM's entry into the consumer market. It never was and never will be marketed as a business device. In fact, I cannot recall seeing any RIM marketing that depicts the Pearl being used by professionals in suits, so to speak.

In contrast the 8800 is RIM's update for business users.
...

SF, you should revisit the Blackberry commercial site. It's CLEARLY marketed at both consumers and business users, just as is the 8800.

R.
==

[Dr. Jerry]

I disagree. I am a business user. I use it for business needs as well as personal. I support XX people and XX servers and this device is great for my needs. Your statement that it is not good for a (light) business user does not hold water, you are making a swpeeing generalization on how *you* do business. There are a million different kinds of businesses, not all of them are corporate behomeths.[/QUOTE]

You are 100% correct. But for the Wall Street user, such as myself, this thing can barely hold water. You cannot view spreadsheets, Word documents, Powerpoint presentations, etc. (unless you drop another $200 for Dynoplex's EOffice, which still doesn't work that well). THAT is what usually is defined as BUSINESS use (at least here in NYC). If you can do that on your phone and NOT carry around your 5 lb. laptop...your doing OK!
Can you type an email with the SureType? Yes, you can. Would you want to type an extended response, as sometimes is necessary in finance and marketing? Nope, I wouldn't want to! Is it small and sleek, yep. Is it "cool"...yep! Is it a true business tool? Very debatable.
When I need to view any MS document on the fly, or type out a long response on email, I pull out a Treo 700P or W. I can view any document I want...edit them, type on a full keyboard (a bit cramped..but still better than SureType) and email them. Bigger, yes. Heavier, yes. Does it get the job done, yes!

[kankanman]

Originally Posted by rivviepop

*raises hand* me me me, pick me!

I fall into this category, I am not a heavy-email-on-phone user but I like the BlackBerry platform. It's stable, fast and relatively bug-free. It has nice internet browsing (multiple solutions actually), runs lots of 3rd part J2ME quickly, and specifically the Pearlball hardware is excellent in usage. It has lots of knobs to twiddle and tweak to change how you like, very good RF and sound quality. The UI is snappy and intuitive and the seperate features are tightly integrated (meaning email + web + sms etc. has cross-APIs that beat out S60 easily).

I also love SureType -- I typed a 3-4 paragraph email in the GMail applet just yesterday while riding the bus, and not once did it go wrong and screw up. A few non-standard things I was typing took a second to get (like "ISO" etc.) but I was pleased with the results of my typing session. This far exceeds my expectations, using crap like T9 and/or iTap is horrible compared to SureType. It's scary sometimes how well SureType guesses the weird things I type.

So to all you old-school BB users who've been around for years typing 80 emails a day on your devices -- say hello to us, your new wave of BB users who want something different that the Pearl is providing. I've sold two of my S60 handsets already, I am more pleased with this platform than Symbian by a long shot -- but I never wanted a QWERTY device, I want small and pocketable. The 8700g is a nuisance to guys like me (god I could smash that stupid scrollwheel with a hammer).

agree with everything said above

Originally Posted by mafiaconnected

I have my mind set on going back to full QWERTY, so I was simply venting about the issues I have experienced and the unncessary hype of the pearl.

i think every new, cool looking phone or gadget gets overhyped. uhhh like the 8800?

[SanFrancisco]

Well I am just giving an opinion; duly note your hostility to all my posts.

Fact is the Pearl is marketed toward the casual consumer market and not for business, as stated throughout the Net, the WSJ, and by RIM. The Pearl was introduced to attract those 195 million casual, non-professional users, people who do not use the Pearl for business nor even know what applications can be labeled "business applications."

I suggest you read RIM's marketing strategy, press releases and other information on the Net to understand my supposed "sweeping generalization."

If it is a business device, where are all the business applications? Fact is, there has not been a rush to make business applications Pearl compatible because there is not a market for such. Yes, some are trickling on to the market, but certainly not like they have for other BBs. And I suspect that part of the problem is that the Pearl's OS cannot handle many of the business applications out there. To be sure, the Pearl OS has its hands full handling existing applications.

And if the Pearl is marketed to the business user [it's not] what is RIM doing coming out with the 8800 five months after the Pearl. It sure was not a move to compete with the Pearl. And I don't ever see RIM or local sellers telling businesses and government that there are two phones to choose from, the Pearl and the 8800.

By the way, using the Pearl at your place of employment does NOT make the Pearl a business device, e.g., compared to other devices that use the full range of business applications.

And lastly, there have been lots of reports of the Pearl OS crashing, which is fixed by a reset. That tells me that the OS is taxed just like other devices and PCs. If it was a bug then a reset would not fix the problem.

Read all the posts and threads throughout BBF since Sept 2006. Then come back and take the position that the Pearl OS is "robust." See how many posts talk about a problem and that a "reboot" fixed the clog. That tells me the OS is not robust ["robust" as defined in the dictionary means "strongly formed, exhibiting strength or vigorous health"].

But whatever.

Originally Posted by rivviepop

Because everyone has an opinion, and some threads are like people chattering. There is no "here's a question here's an answer" need for every single thread, which unfortunately seems to be how you feel. *shrug*



I disagree. I use this thing like crazy for all sorts of stuff (games, browsing, mails, J2ME apps I play with - you name it) and am not having any of these problems. I think it is unfair to compare such a robust OS as the BB/RIM with a piece of crap like WindowsXP. The only reboots I need are when apps update (like the JiveTalk betas) and the like -- mine has been running like an absolute champ, just like OS X or Linux. You know, real operating systems.



I disagree. I am a business user. I use it for business needs as well as personal. I support XX people and XX servers and this device is great for my needs. Your statement that it is not good for a (light) business user does not hold water, you are making a swpeeing generalization on how *you* do business. There are a million different kinds of businesses, not all of them are corporate behomeths.

[kankanman]

i smell hostility. cant we all just get along?

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by hrhenry

SF, you should revisit the Blackberry commercial site. It's CLEARLY marketed at both consumers and business users, just as is the 8800.

R.
==

While RIM may show the Pearl being used by people in business, that is only some hype tossed in.

Their intent with the Pearl was to get a share of the 195 to now 200 million "non-professional" market, you know, people who buy a phone based on how it looks, what it feels like, and price. [Hence the Pearl's look, features and even RIM coming out with different colored Pearls].

In fact, can anyone point to any Pearl marketing that shows all the business applications the Pearl can run?

And truth be told, what we have discovered after using notebooks, sub-notebooks and PDAs, is that devices like the Pearl are just too limited to do anything business related so we now rely on sub-notebooks computers to take on the road to perform business related tasks [document management and viewing, PDF viewers, Excel, PowerPoint, database, Word processing and viewing, time keeping, access to the Net, financial programs, presentation programs, etc.].

We have found that even larger PDAs don't do all that well for the above tasks, but they are better than the Pearl because they have operating systems capable of running business apps, and important to me, larger displays.

But in the end, we have retired the PDAs, rely on sub-notebooks, and love the Pearl for its phone and e-mail capabilities. Add to that the ability to provide multi-media entertainment so to decompress, well, I am a happy camper.

Oh, and I like the camera too, to take pics of whatever on the spot. [newspaper articles, documents, evidence, etc.]

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by kankanman

i smell hostility. cant we all just get along?

Some people don't like me so they indirectly slap me around a bit with their posts.

But I think we are still in the "lively discussion" phase.

Might get to flaming, but I won't. I PM members if I need to say something "personal."

WBBWCIHS

[razorlocs]

Heres my .02$. im one of those people that never had an interest in a smart phone/PDA, until the pearl. The memory leak issue can be annoying, however you can easily get around it by doing a hard reset(ie take out the battery). Or you can get soft reset app from the thread below (donate this apps worth it)

http://www.blackberryforums.com/afte...set-pearl.html

if you dont feel like taking the battery out every few days. Is it the perfect solution to the mem leak? no. But how many times have you rebooted your computer or laptop because it frooze? Minor price to pay for the obvious benifits the pearl has. As far as full qwerty vs sure type, i personally love sure type. it allows for slim sleek approach to what was a bulkier phone. All in all it boils down to what your needs are. Is the pearl perfect? No but im sure a huge amount of people would agree that its one of the better phones on the market if not the best phone they've owned.

[Blackfist]

I have to say that when I used my MDA, I wrote a lot more. Not that anything is wrong with suretype or the pearl (which I love and caused me to give up my MDA). However, if I need to write anything substantial, it was just easier and quicker to do it on the MDA. But for quick e-mails and the like, you can't be the pearl.

[mafiaconnected]

Originally Posted by razorlocs

if you dont feel like taking the battery out every few days. Is it the perfect solution to the mem leak? no. But how many times have you rebooted your computer or laptop because it frooze? Minor price to pay for the obvious benifits the pearl has.

Reboot my PC's yes...reboot my mac NO! So which computer do I navigate more to...my mac. Why go thru the hassel of rebooting every couple of days, when you can just go back to a device that did not require this?

I hear all of the talk about those saying that they dont experience what I do, well good for you. But I am not making this up, and a temporary solution just so that I can use the pearl is not going to help me.

[razorlocs]

While i can honestly understand an even agree with some of what ur saying, you said it yourself the qwerty issue is what really put u of to the pearl, the mem thing is in my opinion something that can be worked around. I dont think that any 1 single device will suit the needs of all, or come close to what we think perfection ought to be, but for many it does the job. Its a trade off for the mp3 player and camera.

[mafiaconnected]

I think the majority of business users could care less about the mp3 and camera features. to be honest...when I hear blackberry, I think of purely email use. that is exactly what I use it for. I very very rarely surf the web. the only other thing I use it for is the calendar.

[kankanman]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

Some people don't like me so they indirectly slap me around a bit with their posts.

But I think we are still in the "lively discussion" phase.

Might get to flaming, but I won't. I PM members if I need to say something "personal."

WBBWCIHS

hehe i can see that sometimes . but as i say, all info anyone puts on these threads here is insightful - including the "quarrel" on this one

[Dr. Jerry]

You know, I go through these threads and read about how good the Blackberry OS is and how the Moto Qs, the Treos, Blackjacks...how they all are inferior to the almighty Berry.
Well guys...it seems that even our 'treasured' Pearls have some serious issues and problems. What it is capable of and what it isn't. I was reading a thread on here about how people were knocking the Q and the Treo 700s for freezing and crashing. Well...seems that the Pearl does the same thing...and even has a nice memory leak to boot! Gotta pull the battery every few days...hmmm...sounds alot like the complaints about the Treos! The Pearl's video playback leaves alot to be desired...and ya can't even record a video! Ya can't run software off the SD card? I can do that on my Treo! Mp3...yeh sure...but I have my 80Gb iPod with video...why the hell would I want to play anything on the Pearl's small screen?? The camera...how often do we really use the thing? Quality of the shot? Come on...it is a nice novelty.
The bottom line boys...every phone has its issues and problems...and is designed to fit a certain niche and have certain functionalities. The Pearl is a great phone...for the niche it was designed for. It wasn't designed for the business class. I was reading the 8800 thread...seems that some are already having issues with lockups, freezing and hardware.
We get a bit heated in our discussions here because we are passionate about technology and our choice of a device that we think fits our lifestyle. We just have to remember that there are many different types of businesses and lifestyles this Pearl has to try and fit into...and for some...it doesn't.

[septahedra]

I totally agree that the Pearl was designed with a specific target market in mind. Whatever you call that market, it doesn't fit squarely with what most technology-savvy people call the "business" market. The Pearl was designed with consumers in mind, because if it's a true business smartphone it will have a variant with no camera.

Does it mean people can't use the pearl for business? no, they can use the pearl for business, because the term "business" can be vague. Heck, I've met many business people that run their business with just laptops and plain old cell phones. If regular cell phones work for them, the Pearl will certainly do fine.

Lets look at my own case. In my job, I need access to email at all times (mostly to read) but I mostly need to be available by phone. I don't travel to meet at client's site, so nobody will object my carrying a camera phone. My company doesn't provide cell phones to its employees, so this device is also my personal phone that must meet my personal needs (multimedia, web browsing, etc.). As such, the Pearl is perfect for me because it works ok as a phone, it does email, it has a decent OS, and its small & light.

In different circumstances I might pick a different smartphone, but today the Pearl fits my bill perfectly. If it doesn't fit you, then you need to pick a different smartphone.

PS: I don't have the problem with missing emails. Sometimes I wish I do (lol) just so I can have an excuse for not replying ;)

[JJB236]

Originally Posted by cbunting

have thousands of emails, never had a memory problem, love the pearl!

How long have you had your Pearl? I am going through my 3rd one, and the problem comes back in approximately 2 weeks.

Do you delete all your call logs and emails periodically?

[JJB236]

Originally Posted by mafiaconnected

The pearl is nice, just not for me. I cant deal with the memory leak issue! I used to have use an 8700g and never ever had any problems with keeping and filing messages. I get around 200 emails a day, and by the time I get home, more than half of the emails have been deleted from the device. I have tried everything: deleted all language packs, unnecessary themes and ringtones, no pics, no videos, I set the timeframe to "Forever", etc. I close all of my programs the right way...and still...continously having memory issues. Like I said, my 8700g never gave me any problems at all, I used to keep every email possible on the device, and still keep themes, programs, etc.

As for the Suretype...I got used to it, learned without any issues, but it SUCKS!! In my opinion, there is nothing like a full QWERTY if you are a heavy email user. Especially for all of the little things that can take a toll, for example punctuations (i.e. colons, semi-colons, forward/backward slashes, etc.). The mis-suggestions like "gay" vs. "hat" or "get" vs. "hey" etc. Suretype is okay for quick responses, or for general responses, but can be a headache and a frustrating task when you need to send out an email with minimal revision.

Overall, the Pearl is a nice BB for the casual user, I may still keep it for my voice plan and possibly my personal email accounts, but for my work BES account, I will definately go back to the 8700 and wait for the 8800!

I had my 8100 for about 3 weeks now. And so far found the SureType convenient, since two letters are sitting in one large keypad as opposed to hiiting that one small keypad for one word. As for your concern of mis-suggestions, I tested it and it is indeed annoying, but I guess it can make up for the time saved since I can type faster on SureType. I can quickly move the trackball from get to hey, vice versa, in 0.1 second.

How do you like the 8800? Any problems with the memory leak issue?

[JJB236]

Originally Posted by mafiaconnected

LOL...I dont know. All I know is my wife thought my Pearl was cute...and that did it for me! She hated my 8700g, so I am going back to big and burly!

That's funny, man. When girls started commenting that my Pearl was cute and pretty, it bugged me, and I got it exchanged for a 8800. After a few days, I went back to Pearl. It was manly enough, but had problem carrying this thin wide phone in my jeans when going to cafes and clubs for pleasure. Also, going for a small tiny key (vs Pearl's large keypad) for one frigging letter was hard for me. 8800 will be good when I have my briefcase. But during playtime and in my suit pocket on a day without a briefcase, the Pearl would suit me better. Needed a smaller phone.

Let me know how it goes with 8800.

[churchill]

IMHO, from a person who has owned everything from moto v3's v3i's, tmobile MDA, Tmobile Dash, and tested many other phones for corps (part of my consulting job) is that the pearl is targeted at the low end business user, higher end consumer market. In terms of OS's and problems, its a clear hands down winner against all the others. Yes the mem leak is a bother, but compared to the outright disasters of win mobile 5.0 and its all of its horrors, and the wacko moto user interface, I find the pearl to be the perfect phone for me. Its the right size, I dont want to carry anything bigger than a candy bar phone, suretype is great once you get used to each other and I can type as fast as I want to on the keyboard. It doesnt crash (i got used to rebooting windows 5.0 about 4 times a day) and the BIS email push service is terrific. It could use a better browser, but with the one that comes with it plus opera mini Im happy enough.
You to have some perspective. If your whole business life is email dependant and you get 200 a day, then the pearl is clearly not for you. If you get around 50 like me its perfect. I suggest if you really want to feel pain go out and buy a tmobile MDA and see if you are not in a straight jacket after day two.