[TheRFGuy]

Just a word about signal strength and drop calls.
1) Drop calls:
In reality, all carriers are about the same. Drop call rates are all in the 3-5% range for all major cities for all carriers as I have been involved with drive testing for an independent company. Customers sometimes see real differences however most of the time, it just a perceived difference - an result from marketing?? Also in some areas, Cingular has done two things that seems to have a positive effect on customer perception: a) Increase the radio link time out to 60 seconds. This means the network will hold the resources or link to the cell for up to 60 seconds even though the connection is lost. This is NOT counted as a drop call. Most subs will hang up or the link will re-establish. I don't believe Verizon and TMO is doing this.
2) Signal Strength:
Customers also judge carriers by the number of bars on their phone. This makes sense in CDMA networks such as Sprint and Verizon but on GSM this is not good because the uplink (cell to tower) is the weakness link while downlink (tower to cell ) can be a full bar. The problem is "link imbalance." That is the link is not balance so one side can hear better than the other side.

The Point?
Before working for an wireless independent company, I used to work for Cingular designing cell sites and know the tricks the use. Frankly for most part, they do have good coverage but be mindful not to judge on perceived differences. All carriers have comparable services in major cities.

[EricaJ1074]

Originally Posted by tprime

Sometimes it depends on the phone. My wife has a tmobile MDA and somtimes I have reception and she doesn't.

I had the same thing happen to me before I got rid of my Sidekick. I had HORRIBLE reception in my own house and anywhere else. Any other phone I had kept signal 24/7/365.

[EricaJ1074]

Originally Posted by nosidam

One time Verizon had to come and fix my landline, and he whipped out his Verizon cell phone to test it...when he saw he had no reception, I asked him to send the "Can you hear me now?" guy to my apt.

LMAO

[EricaJ1074]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

As a former Cingular customer, I can't help but think that all this, "It's the network" stuff

I had a TMo rep tell me that one time but it wasn't to justify a rate plan. It was to keep me from ditching the Sidekick 2 I had (which I eventually did anyway) . Once I discovered I was the only one out of 3 people (me, my brother and my sister-in-law) who had tmo that lost signal constantly, I ditched the sidekick.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

As a former Cingular customer, I can't help but think that all this, "It's the network" stuff is all a bunch of hype to justify their disproportionate rate plans.

In all practicality, it's because they can. They certainly wouldn't charge so much if their customers weren't paying that much.

I agree that dropped calls and number of bars don't really provide much meaningful information. However, it's not just a matter of perception when you can consistently use one carrier's phone in a location that you're always in (and the other carrier's phone is consistently unusable).

[stileshingles]

You can also check out JD Power and Associates for their take:

JD Power Wireless Customer Satisfaction Ratings

JD Power Wireless Call Quality Ratings


Here's their press release on wireless satisfaction: 2006059.pdf

[luckman212]

well, 2 days into the testing so far, 8700g is definitely getting a worse signal pretty much everywhere I have tried it. It's not to say that its unusably bad, just lower voice quality when compared to Cingular. I haven't had any dropped calls, just lots of static and dropouts. This was mostly outdoors. Indoors, the Cing is usually 2-3 bars stronger than the T-mo and I was unable to get service in several elevators on the T-mo whereas the Cing was OK. This was expected however. EDGE networking seemed noticably snappier on the T-Mo 8700g however, with webpages, and google maps appearing quicker in a side-by-side test vs. the 8700c.

As for the phone itself, I prefer the keyboard of the 8700c, which seems to be slightly convex vs. the slightly concave 8700g. I upgraded the g to the Telstra .309 version not sure if that has any bearing on quality etc. I noticed there seems to be some slowness /lag when launching apps after this upgrade but honestly didn't use the .284 long enough to know if its any slower than the original T-mo .284

at this point I am 99% sure I will be cancelling the Cingular and sticking with the T-mo, even though its lower quality, its still usable and Cing is just a plain old rip-off.

[supermanfan]

Originally Posted by luckman212

well, 2 days into the testing so far, 8700g is definitely getting a worse signal pretty much everywhere I have tried it. It's not to say that its unusably bad, just lower voice quality when compared to Cingular. I haven't had any dropped calls, just lots of static and dropouts. This was mostly outdoors. Indoors, the Cing is usually 2-3 bars stronger than the T-mo and I was unable to get service in several elevators on the T-mo whereas the Cing was OK. This was expected however. EDGE networking seemed noticably snappier on the T-Mo 8700g however, with webpages, and google maps appearing quicker in a side-by-side test vs. the 8700c.

at this point I am 99% sure I will be cancelling the Cingular and sticking with the T-mo, even though its lower quality, its still usable and Cing is just a plain old rip-off.

I find this conclusion curious. You say Cingular is better. T-Mobile has a lot of static and dropouts, but is usable.

I assume that you have determined that this improved call quality is not worth additional cost. Are you using your phone mostly for personal calls vs business calls? If yes, then I guess I could understand this reasoning.

[hf1khal]

Originally Posted by supermanfan

I find this conclusion curious. You say Cingular is better. T-Mobile has a lot of static and dropouts, but is usable.

I assume that you have determined that this improved call quality is not worth additional cost. Are you using your phone mostly for personal calls vs business calls? If yes, then I guess I could understand this reasoning.

I agree. It is unfortunate. Yesterday I had a business meeting and we all met at the Plaza hotel, the people needed touse their Balckberry and they had T Mobile and their service was none existant in there and they had to go outside to get service. Any way the Cingular store was aless than a block away, after the meeting 4 BBusers went and started their new service with Cingular and are cancelling their service with T mobile. Their argument was price is nothing when it comes to be able to continue your business needed. I also had the T mobile service with the 8700g and let it go with in the 14 day trial because of call quality issues and that is not only in NYC but also in LI. Mind you that I held T mobile service since the days of Omnipoint and this was the end of the road for them with me.

[nosidam]

Originally Posted by luckman212

well, 2 days into the testing so far, 8700g is definitely getting a worse signal pretty much everywhere I have tried it. It's not to say that its unusably bad, just lower voice quality when compared to Cingular. I haven't had any dropped calls, just lots of static and dropouts. This was mostly outdoors. Indoors, the Cing is usually 2-3 bars stronger than the T-mo and I was unable to get service in several elevators on the T-mo whereas the Cing was OK.

I was being slightly obsessive and took an 8700g and 8700c, did the ALT-NMLL thing, and carried them both all over the place comparing the signal strength. The T-Mo was consistantly 10 db higher (worse) than the Cing device.

That being said, I don't think the 10 db actually makes a perceivable difference, at least to my ears.

[DuckWingDuck]

Originally Posted by lgreenberg

Yes Cingular has a thirty day no questions asked trial period. You can return the phone and cancel your service within the thirty days. You just pay for the service you used during the trial.

There is no denying T-Mobile's Blackberry plans are cheaper. But it's about coverage. T-Mobile could offer free service. But if they don't have the coverage you need what good what it be?

Do you know how T-Mobile's service is in your area?

You could always sign up for both. Carry both devices around for the trial periods each offers and see which one works best. Then cancel the one that doesn't work best before its trial period expires.

TMO has similar deal here in California. Although, I think the trial period is 2 weeks. Not sure. I know that TMO does allow you to take loaners, but I don't know if you need to be a current customer for that.

[luckman212]

Originally Posted by supermanfan

I find this conclusion curious. You say Cingular is better. T-Mobile has a lot of static and dropouts, but is usable.

I assume that you have determined that this improved call quality is not worth additional cost. Are you using your phone mostly for personal calls vs business calls? If yes, then I guess I could understand this reasoning.

No, I use it for a mix of personal & business like most people. I haven't made a decision yet. I just didn't think that the Cing service was worth TWICE what the T-mo service costs. It is not *that* much better. If I get static once in a while, or have to go outside to send an email once in a while, that is fine with me and not worth an extra $700 per year that Cingular will cost me. As I said, the T-mo device was not so bad as to be unusable. I use the BB mostly for email anyway and I did actually notice the EDGE net speeds seemed about 30% better on the 8700g. Go figure that one, since the signal quality seemed consistently lower.

[Zipper]

Originally Posted by luckman212

No, I use it for a mix of personal & business like most people. I haven't made a decision yet. I just didn't think that the Cing service was worth TWICE what the T-mo service costs. It is not *that* much better. If I get static once in a while, or have to go outside to send an email once in a while, that is fine with me and not worth an extra $700 per year that Cingular will cost me. As I said, the T-mo device was not so bad as to be unusable. I use the BB mostly for email anyway and I did actually notice the EDGE net speeds seemed about 30% better on the 8700g. Go figure that one, since the signal quality seemed consistently lower.

I am confused on your logical? Why take the test that you already has some idea on the service or price?

May I ask. How many business lost on the name of saving $700 dollars a year?

When you call for a quote( Realtor, Mortgage banker, company sales rep or even your boss etc.) are you calling this guy that has XXX service again and agian that cannot reach at the time you need or you call the next one on the list?

[DuckWingDuck]

Originally Posted by Zipper

I am confused on your logical? Why take the test that you already has some idea on the service or price?

May I ask. How many business lost on the name of saving $700 dollars a year?

When you call for a quote( Realtor, Mortgage banker, company sales rep or even your boss etc.) are you calling this guy that has XXX service again and agian that cannot reach at the time you need or you call the next one on the list?

Seems like your logic is a wee bit flawed here, he's not saying that he's getting dropped calls left and right. A small bit of static and occasionally needing to move to a different spot is acceptable to him.

Ultimately, I don't understand all this fanboyism with the carriers. Everybody's got different threshold of tolerance and amount of money they're willing to spend.

[TheRFGuy]

Originally Posted by stileshingles

You can also check out JD Power and Associates for their take:

JD Power Wireless Customer Satisfaction Ratings

JD Power Wireless Call Quality Ratings


Here's their press release on wireless satisfaction: Attachment 3166

Read JD Power with a grain of salt! Two years ago prior to Cingular acquiring AT&T Wireless, JD Power claims the drop call rate and call quality for TMO and Cingular were significantly different (don't remember which ranked higher at the time) where in fact subs from both companies are on the same networks.

[stileshingles]

Originally Posted by TheRFGuy

Read JD Power with a grain of salt! Two years ago prior to Cingular acquiring AT&T Wireless, JD Power claims the drop call rate and call quality for TMO and Cingular were significantly different (don't remember which ranked higher at the time) where in fact subs from both companies are on the same networks.

Agreed. You should always take reviews with a grain of salt. That being said, here are the Consumer Reports wireless carrier ratings: Clicky

[Chinasaur]

Check your coverage for T-Mobile - http://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/

Generally accepted to be the most accurate signal indicator available from any provider..if they even offer such a tool.

As for "most coverage"..most users fall for the line "we have service everywhere.." when in fact, they rarely travel outside of their home area. Paying for more coverage when you don't need it 97% of time is just falling for marketing mouth-boogie.

Chances are it will work at Hunter, or in the Catskills, etc...and to be honest.. if you are out there... Do you really want to be on your phone?

Luck.

[Aroc]

TMo is great. They have great US domestic voice and data rate plans, great customer service, and great internation coverage. The trouble with TMo is getting reception everywhere you need it. I used to put up a phone and provider (Sprint PCS) that would cause me to have trouble making calls from my house or at work. The workaround was to make calls by the window, or go outside.

As time went by, and my salary and responsibilities grew, I would no longer tolerate this from a phone and provider. My experience with TMo BlackBerries was the same. 50% of the monthly price for a phone that gets signal 50% of the time. I had to be outside or near a window to get coverage (email or voice). Had the TMo blackberry worked at work and home for me, I would have gladly gotten service on my personal lines. At work we moved from TMo to NXTL, then to Cingular.

As for street level coverage maps: yes TMo has these on their website. Cingular can give you street level maps, the catch is only a store rep can do this from within a store. Which is a PITA - but at least you can get them.

I think the TMo/Cingular debate has to be answered on an individual basis. Can you get enough signal where you need it to make TMo worthwhile? If so, you are good to go.

[hf1khal]

Originally Posted by Aroc

TMo is great. They have great US domestic voice and data rate plans, great customer service, and great internation coverage. The trouble with TMo is getting reception everywhere you need it. I used to put up a phone and provider (Sprint PCS) that would cause me to have trouble making calls from my house or at work. The workaround was to make calls by the window, or go outside.

As time went by, and my salary and responsibilities grew, I would no longer tolerate this from a phone and provider. My experience with TMo BlackBerries was the same. 50% of the monthly price for a phone that gets signal 50% of the time. I had to be outside or near a window to get coverage (email or voice). Had the TMo blackberry worked at work and home for me, I would have gladly gotten service on my personal lines. At work we moved from TMo to NXTL, then to Cingular.

As for street level coverage maps: yes TMo has these on their website. Cingular can give you street level maps, the catch is only a store rep can do this from within a store. Which is a PITA - but at least you can get them.

I think the TMo/Cingular debate has to be answered on an individual basis. Can you get enough signal where you need it to make TMo worthwhile? If so, you are good to go.

There are some rumers that the Cingular store version will also be available to the public on theri site. I have seen it and it gives the exact tower location and I found it ot be more detailed than T Mobile's. But when we get to see it on thier site it might not be as detailed. The hope for this is some time later this summer.

[Stinsonddog]

That's cause TM has only one of the two frequencies 950 and 1900. The one they don't have is the one that gets through walls.

Originally Posted by deezmfnutz

I live in manhattan and I have had good luck with mobile. It works great in most of the city. I get poor in building signal in the curry hill/gramercy area on low floors but that is no big deal for me since I only go there once in a while. I have gotten great service everywhere else in the city. The 8700 series phone has pretty good rf, better than the 7100 series. The only way to know for sure is to give it a try yourself. There is no doubt that cingular and verizon have better coverage but it is no worth the price difference IMHO. EDGE works good on tmobo and is available just about everywhere in the city.