[tfaz1]

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

You can call me crazy, all you want, but if selling 54,000 a quarter is your bar for a successful product, then I guess Creative, Iriver, and most of the other digital media players are huge successes too!

The simple fact is that the original iPod was big success. So much, in fact, that Apple decided not only to build a player that worked with Windows but actually develop software that runs on Windows (a direct rival's operating system). Seems like a pretty stupid idea to dump all that time, money and effort into a product that was, as you call it, "a complete flop."

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

My point was that people keep arguing that since the iPod turned out to be a success, then everything Apple ever does has to be a success. That is clearly not true, since plenty of companies (including your beloved Apple) have followed up sucessful products with flops.

I would never argue with you over those points. Apple has had some big failures in it's day. In fact, one of the biggest was the Newton; Apple's only other venture into handheld computing.

But let's talk more about your anger. I think you're upset because you think us Mac users are trying to hijack your forums. But you forget that we to are BlackBerry users, too. In fact, I would argue we Mac users are more dedicated to BlackBerry than the average XP user.

You forget the pains we go through in the name of our BlackBerrys. We have to endure terrible software, like PocketMac, just to perform a sync. We have no way to apply firmware updates or backup our devices on OS X. We will actually use Windows to do these things (now that's dedication). We just got a native app loader a few months ago from our bumbling friends at PocketMac and I'm scared to try it. So with virtually no support from RIM, we Mac users march on for love of our BlackBerrys.

So before you start calling me out on my love for Apple, I would also point out that I love my BlackBerry - just as you obviously do. And even though I'm leaving my 8700 for another, sexier device - I'll always remember the good times we had together.

[archer6]

When the smoke clears & Apple finally receives FCC approval then & only then will we see what this gadget can do. As far as the touch screen, I am not impressed.

Blackberry killer? I don't think so. These are two very different products, for very different uses.

The Apple is more of an entertainment gadget. In some ways very similar to Windows Mobile devices, except it's housed in a "flashy" shiny enclosure. Buyers of this type of gadget are usually more focused on impressing their friends & are much more willing to put up with subpar performance. Witness the lack of 3G in a gadget that really needs it.

However that said, I really like some Apple products & have used PowerBooks for some time.

Regarding this latest Apple item, different? yes, novel? yes,compelling? No.

[BMWLotAttendant]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

This is a BlackBerry forum. With just that fact one should expect lively discussion about competing products.

Far as I know, if one wants to engage in chit chat with other "looking forward to the iPhone" folks, one should hang out in an Apple users' forum.

I for one enjoy the colloquy in this thread. I don't think posters should be expected to talk nice about the iPhone or keep their mouths shut.

Let me remind you who created this thread in the first place? Hmmm I wonder who? If people aren't allowed to talk nice about the iPhone then what was the original thought about creating a thread like this? Customer awareness? Aware that there might be a better phone in the near future? Or a worse phone than what Blackberry has to offer? And, how can people talk bad about a phone with enticing features, so enticing it's causing people to switch over when the phone releases?

IF people are considering no longer using a Blackberry because of this new Apple iPhone, it is then in direct competition of the Blackberry, and in order to talk about it or review the phone's capabilities and compare it with whatever Blackberry has superior or inferior, then these are what forums are for! To give people a better understanding about the function and operations of Blackberry and NON Blackberry phones/PDAs.

[The MVPlaya]

Pretty interesting. If it does not have the 3G network capability then it is not going to be worth it at all.

[tfaz1]

Originally Posted by archer6

The Apple is more of an entertainment gadget. In some ways very similar to Windows Mobile devices, except it's housed in a "flashy" shiny enclosure.

Do you mean flashy like the Pearl or flashy like the extraneous faux-silver bezel on my 8700g? I like both design elements, though. And, in turn, it adds to my enjoyment of the BlackBerry.

Originally Posted by archer6

Buyers of this type of gadget are usually more focused on impressing their friends & are much more willing to put up with subpar performance.

I don't have any friends. You should've guessed as much. I post messages on gadget forums.

Originally Posted by archer6

Regarding this latest Apple item, different? yes, novel? yes,compelling? No.

Compelling like a $7 jump in stock price or compelling like an all out media frenzy? I get it. You're underwhelmed. You are in the minority, however.

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by jfisher

this is the best that could happen for everyone - it'll drive innovation; every other manufacturer are going to make a renewed effort to drive the technology beyond the cutting edge.

Great point that I agree with strongly.

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by BMWLotAttendant

Let me remind you who created this thread in the first place? Hmmm I wonder who? If people aren't allowed to talk nice about the iPhone then what was the original thought about creating a thread like this? Customer awareness?.....

I started the thread so members could talk about the iPhone, good or bad. It was an offshoot of the discussion in the lawsuit section.

I thought it would be interesting to discuss it 1) since members have been mentioning it; and 2) members would want to hear from all sides on the iPhone compared to other BBs, including the Pearl. It certainly was not meant to be for only Apple fans.

Far as I know this thread had no restrictions on talking good or bad about the iPhone.

Maybe before entering there should be a pop-up warning that says "if you can't handle frank discussion, here is a link to an online pharmacy that sells Prozac for cheap."

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

But let's talk more about your anger. I think you're upset because you think us Mac users are trying to hijack your forums. But you forget that we to are BlackBerry users, too. In fact, I would argue we Mac users are more dedicated to BlackBerry than the average XP user.

Yes, let's talk about my anger, since I always love getting psychoanalysis from total strangers who don't even know me.

Let's start with exactly what anger you are talking about? I'm not the one running around calling people crazy and trying to attribute every comment that is critical of my position to some sort of sinister hidden agenda. As such, I'm not really clear as to why you think *I'm* the angry one.

All I have done is point out some really questionable assumptions made by people who it turns out are, by their own admission, die-hard Apple fantastics.

Oh, and I'm judging from most of your comments that you would argue that you Mac users are more ___ fill in the blank with ANYTHING positive___ than the average XP user, so it doesn't come as any surprise that you think they are more dedicated.

And it isn't *my* forum either. I pop in here occasionally when there is something interesting to discuss. If you want to "invade" it or whatever, feel free. I really don't care. What I do care about is a bunch of people actively writing revisionist history in front of my eyes to pretend that a pretty normal smartphone is full of futuristic features never seen before by man.

[SanFrancisco]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher
this is the best that could happen for everyone - it'll drive innovation; every other manufacturer are going to make a renewed effort to drive the technology beyond the cutting edge.

Originally Posted by kurichan

Great point that I agree with strongly.

I disagree and here's why.

The cell phone business is a BIG industry. All the majors have huge R & D divisions who work all year long designing and engineering prototype phones.

You can bet that everyone knows kinda what the competition is doing, at least in general. This is because people talk, people get careless or info gets leaked.

I would bet a Krispy Kreme donut that Apple's competitors knew about all the possible designs that the iPhone could possibly be, not in detail, but in a general sense [such as touchscreen, no touch screen, wi-fi, no wi-fi, removable battery or not, etc.].

Look at all the devices that keep coming out by each manufacturer, each more innovative than last year's model. When you compare Apple's iPhone to what's out there or on the drawing board, I just don't think that the iPhone is going to cause the competition to do anything different than what is on the drawing boards.

I do think that everyone will keep an eye on how iPhone sales go and if it does do well, then others will copy some aspects of it, such as the touchscreen only feature, etc.

I suspect manufacturers have done the same with the Pearl, let's wait and see what the consuming public thinks about the trackball. If it is well accepted then we will start to see trackballs on competing phones.

So bottom line, I beg to differ, the iPhone will not drive innovation. I don't think any of Apple's competitors were shocked, surprised or worried. None of them are going back to the drawing board, so to speak.

Yes, to the envy of others the iPhone has received millions in free publicity, but that has nothing to do with the iPhone as a phone.

Good night all.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

I would also point out that I love my BlackBerry - just as you obviously do.

This is what really kills me! I really, actually, don't like the BlackBerry at all. In fact, it definitely falls in the 'necessary evil' category. I am desperately waiting for something better to come along, because there are so many things I can't stand about it that it makes me crazy. Unfortunately, every device I've seen so far (including the iPhone) has even more flaws than the BlackBerry. I love handheld devices, it is just that I haven't seen anyone get one right since Sony discontinued the Clié and Palm lost all semblance of focus.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but not a single one of my comments is motivated by even the slightest desire to defend the BlackBerry. As far as I'm concerned, the BlackBerry is just the best of the worst.

[lmlloyd]

By the way, on a mostly unrelated side note, where are all the people who regularly pop up explain to me in detail the folly of HTML email?

I have been screaming about the lack of HTML email ever since the BlackBerries went to color screens, and every time I mention it, multiple people pop up to say it is the most horrible idea they have ever heard, because HTML email is an affront to God, and every time you use it a puppy dies.

Now, here is the iPhone touting HTML email over EDGE as one of its selling points, and not a peep about all those dead puppies.

[omkhar]

The iPhone doesn't really compete in the same market as the business BlackBerry devices. Until there is something announced regarding a BES-esque device or a device which is FIPS compliant, I think its safe to say that this is definately a consumer market device.

[GMK]

I think its a gorgeous device. We're looking at step one of the future where a communication device is more connectivity (thank you for the revolution RIM) and less cell phone dependency. Jobs was right, they leapfrogged existing technology.

There's a lot of chat about price. The $5-700 phone is the cheap part. Did we notice a complete lack of serious application software in the "out of the box unit?" Wait until the real business apps come out for $2-300/suite, etc. Add to this your couple of hundred a month bill for the iTunes store and your first month bill will be over a grand.

Prior to the release the rumor had it that Apple had hooked up with a Chinese manufacturer and the initial production run was for 12 million units. They'll sell. If its all Jobs says it is, I'll buy it.

[fkjr2]

ok but no keyboard?!

I am not a fan of sliders - takes a lot out of productivity having to slide it out all the time

[I8UB4]

I've now watched Steve Jobs' iPhone presentation and, although it's a beautiful device with a great interface, it is not going to be a Blackberry killer:

1) As with most other smartphones, it's an entertainment device with email thrown in. Yahoo email as the only push solution will never fly with the corporate customer or IT department.
2) There is no removeable battery. What happens when you're on the road and your battery is dying. You can't swap in a fresh one if there is nowhere to charge.
3) Touchscreens have never taken hold, and unless the Apple version is truly revolutionary, I just can't see typing more than a few sentences on it.
4) ON PAPER, many of the features are amazing. How many of the Nokia E series functions looked great on paper but just didn't work right?

This phone is an IPOD killer, not a Blackberry killer. They are two different markets. I'm on Blackberry because I need functional, reliable email for business use. I just don't see how the iPhone will satisfy my business needs.

If I were about to buy a new IPOD, I would wait until June and get the iPhone. If I had just bought a new IPOD, I would be pissed.

The iPhone will be a huge success in the consumer market because it is extremely cool and does the things that most consumers want (phone, music, internet). It may even be a Palm, Motorolla Q and Blackjack killer. But it is not a Blackberry killer.

[apple85]

Originally Posted by GMK

I think its a gorgeous device. We're looking at step one of the future where a communication device is more connectivity (thank you for the revolution RIM) and less cell phone dependency. Jobs was right, they leapfrogged existing technology.

There's a lot of chat about price. The $5-700 phone is the cheap part. Did we notice a complete lack of serious application software in the "out of the box unit?" Wait until the real business apps come out for $2-300/suite, etc. Add to this your couple of hundred a month bill for the iTunes store and your first month bill will be over a grand.

Prior to the release the rumor had it that Apple had hooked up with a Chinese manufacturer and the initial production run was for 12 million units. They'll sell. If its all Jobs says it is, I'll buy it.

I'm with you on this one... I'd like to know what OTHER programs will be on it or made available. I HOPE since they're claiming it's OSX they'll include things we get with the big version like ichat (For aim!!) and maybe even a photobooth for the camera and maybe apple works? who knows. June is 6 months away maybe they'll swap and make it 3G capable once they hear/see/read the out cry that it's not and realize they'll sell more if it is.
I thinK I have a completely new take on products I can't physically touch.
If I can't touch it play with it I can't pass judgement and base my judgement of a spec sheet of paper.

[MobileRC]

I think the most exciting part of this device is that Apple has upped the ante significantly now the onus is on other companies to step up their products, I am excited what will come out next to compete with it.

[GMK]

Originally Posted by MobileRC

I think the most exciting part of this device is that Apple has upped the ante significantly now the onus is on other companies to step up their products, I am excited what will come out next to compete with it.

You are right on target. Geeks unite!! The fun has just begun.

What do you think Bill Gates and company are going to do?? Sit by? NOT.

[CanuckBB]

Originally Posted by GMK

I think its a gorgeous device. We're looking at step one of the future where a communication device is more connectivity (thank you for the revolution RIM) and less cell phone dependency. Jobs was right, they leapfrogged existing technology.

There's a lot of chat about price. The $5-700 phone is the cheap part. Did we notice a complete lack of serious application software in the "out of the box unit?" Wait until the real business apps come out for $2-300/suite, etc. Add to this your couple of hundred a month bill for the iTunes store and your first month bill will be over a grand.

Prior to the release the rumor had it that Apple had hooked up with a Chinese manufacturer and the initial production run was for 12 million units. They'll sell. If its all Jobs says it is, I'll buy it.

Am I the only one who wonders if there are 10 million Cingular customers who are ready to dump their existing device and dump $500-$600 for a new one?????

[albiesf]

[QUOTE=I8UB4] 2) There is no removeable battery. What happens when you're on the road and your battery is dying. You can't swap in a fresh one if there is nowhere to charge. QUOTE]

Is this right...it doesn't have a removable battery?! There's no way I would buy a phone that way. The battery life on this thing is 5 hours tops (16 hours if you just play audio).

The iPhone is focused on a different market than the BB. Can you imagine this phone within the corporate environment? People have enough issues with camera phones within certain corporate environments, and until the iPhone is out, so is the verdict. One thing I will say is that the iPhone will adversely affect Pearl sales. The iPhone is a great consumer product, but it remains to be seen if it affects the overall RIM business domain.