[greggebhardt]

Really anyone comparing these two devices, likely did not need a Blackberry in the first place.

A fair comparison is the iPhone and Sidekick!

[teamcrn]

With all the negetive Press Steve Jobs must be writing his i told you so speach right now.lmao For the record the whole moral i dont lie or steal thats why i dont download music or programs are silly. If you had any idea how the music and movie royalty system worked you would have a diffrent view. But thats for another time. Its funny how next to nobody has seen or had the iphone in its hand yet its such a Bad device. I can remember having a motorola timeport and dissing the blackberry. boy has things changed.

[Alex Alexzander]

Originally Posted by teamcrn

With all the negetive Press Steve Jobs must be writing his i told you so speach right now.lmao For the record the whole moral i dont lie or steal thats why i dont download music or programs are silly. If you had any idea how the music and movie royalty system worked you would have a diffrent view. But thats for another time. Its funny how next to nobody has seen or had the iphone in its hand yet its such a Bad device. I can remember having a motorola timeport and dissing the blackberry. boy has things changed.

I happen to be the founder of two Avid user groups. Avid is the leading editing platform for film editors. I have also authored a book on DVD authoring. I work in replication, and special packaging, have been published over 40 times, and been paid for it, so please, don't begin to tell me how royalties work.

The fact is, if you don't like the price of something, like music, or a movie download, that doesn't give you the right to steal it. So please, stop thinking in your one-track mind that your theft of music is in anyway the right thing to do. You want to protest music companies, great, do it by not buying thier music. But the price you pay for that protest, is also not enjoying the music at all. Otherwise, it's not a protest at all. It's just your lame way of excusing yourself for your little theft of someone else's work.

How the royalty works is not really any of your business in the first place. Music is like any other property for sale. Someone spent money to produce it, and promote it. They offer it for a price, and that's all you need to know. You either pay for it, or you kids steal it, cause you kids grew up thinking everything should be free.

You think the artist and the record company are not fair with each other? That's none of your business. That's an issue between the artist, their contract, and the label they signed with. They are adults, and like any other adult, they entered into a contract. They don't like what they agreed on, tough sh!t, don't resign next time, or ask for a better cut, etc. In any case, it's not a justification for you to steal their work.

-Alex

[teamcrn]

Originally Posted by Alex Alexzander

I happen to be the founder of two Avid user groups. Avid is the leading editing platform for film editors. I have also authored a book on DVD authoring. I work in replication, and special packaging, have been published over 40 times, and been paid for it, so please, don't begin to tell me how royalties work.

The fact is, if you don't like the price of something, like music, or a movie download, that doesn't give you the right to steal it. So please, stop thinking in your one-track mind that your theft of music is in anyway the right thing to do. You want to protest music companies, great, do it by not buying thier music. But the price you pay for that protest, is also not enjoying the music at all. Otherwise, it's not a protest at all. It's just your lame way of excusing yourself for your little theft of someone else's work.

How the royalty works is not really any of your business in the first place. Music is like any other property for sale. Someone spent money to produce it, and promote it. They offer it for a price, and that's all you need to know. You either pay for it, or you kids steal it, cause you kids grew up thinking everything should be free.

You think the artist and the record company are not fair with each other? That's none of your business. That's an issue between the artist, their contract, and the label they signed with. They are adults, and like any other adult, they entered into a contract. They don't like what they agreed on, tough sh!t, don't resign next time, or ask for a better cut, etc. In any case, it's not a justification for you to steal their work.

-Alex

You off your soap Box yet?
I get all of my music Free directly from record companies. Dont past judgement on people for downloading music that the record companies and or artist dont get paid for. It sounds like you have a personel stake in this argument so i wont go crazy because you emotions are driving your to reply. Downloading isnt wrong or imoral as long as its not being used for resale. Sharing 1 cd among 25 friends isnt wrong. What artist and movie types dont understand is most consumers will buy the good quality copy once they know its a good product. Movie or Album. Put out a better product thats priced to sell and you wont have this issue. But oh well

[test54]

I agree, for no one having first hand knowledge their are alot of comparisons going on.

And Greg you definitely are right that those people dont really need the blackberry, but people outside of the Corp. environment buy what they want not what they necessarily need. I'm sure you see alot of pearls out there with all of the messages going out being SMS, people will buy because of the BB cool factor. Well, then the iphone has 3 main differences as I see - No Push, No BES, No physical keyboard. Those are negatives to me but are not deal breakers as I dont use BES, therefore get my email with about a 15 min delay, and thnk i could get used to a touch screen keyboard as I use one on my laptop. So I guess i just talked myself into that category that "doesn't need" the BB, although I like it.


BTW - Alex i agree with you about most of that but whats with the "its none of your business", if someone is in the public eye and expects people to support them, then its "our" business.

[Alex Alexzander]

Originally Posted by teamcrn

You off your soap Box yet?
I get all of my music Free directly from record companies. Dont past judgement on people for downloading music that the record companies and or artist dont get paid for. It sounds like you have a personel stake in this argument so i wont go crazy because you emotions are driving your to reply. Downloading isnt wrong or imoral as long as its not being used for resale. Sharing 1 cd among 25 friends isnt wrong. What artist and movie types dont understand is most consumers will buy the good quality copy once they know its a good product. Movie or Album. Put out a better product thats priced to sell and you wont have this issue. But oh well

It is wrong. There is no justification for what you are writing at all. You're just making up whatever you want. You somehow think it's your right to share a CD with 25 other people. It simply is not the case. And you think people will pay for quality huh. They won't. As long as it is easy to steal, and as long as you are willing to justify it to yourself, you will continue to be a common theif at someone else's expense.

You can lie to yourself all you want, but at the end of the day, you're still just a crook.

-Alex

[Alex Alexzander]

Originally Posted by test54

BTW - Alex i agree with you about most of that but whats with the "its none of your business", if someone is in the public eye and expects people to support them, then its "our" business.

Sorry Test,

It is simply none of your business what deal is made between the artist and the label. I don't know how else to explain that. What goes on behind those closed doors is not your concern.

-Alex

[teamcrn]

Originally Posted by Alex Alexzander

It is wrong. There is no justification for what you are writing at all. You're just making up whatever you want. You somehow think it's your right to share a CD with 25 other people. It simply is not the case. And you think people will pay for quality huh. They won't. As long as it is easy to steal, and as long as you are willing to justify it to yourself, you will continue to be a common theif at someone else's expense.

You can lie to yourself all you want, but at the end of the day, you're still just a crook.

-Alex

Whats with the personel Attacks? A liar and a thief and a crook? WOW We have a diffrence in thought process. Like i said from the start all my music comes from the record companies marketing dept's. I refuse to by bootleg movies because my 50 inch HD TV deserves better I know you feel like you have the moral high ground here because you are a "publisher" of some sort but you have no idea who i am so please you show your ignorance when you resort to name calling.

Back on topic. Im a gadget freak i love my blackberry because it does email well but i want an iphone as a side device maybe a weekend device who know's i just refuse to sign a contract with ATT to get one.

[ofelas]

A liar and a thief and a crook?

"Alex" - as teamcrn correctly mentions, it's "thIEf" not "thEIf"...I'd have expected better spelling from such an esteemed author & publisher & Avid founder & soapbox orator

[Alex Alexzander]

[QUOTE=teamcrn;577248]Whats with the personel Attacks? A liar and a thief and a crook? WOW We have a diffrence in thought process. Like i said from the start all my music comes from the record companies marketing dept's. I refuse to by bootleg movies because my 50 inch HD TV deserves better I know you feel like you have the moral high ground here because you are a "publisher" of some sort but you have no idea who i am so please you show your ignorance when you resort to name calling./[QUOTE]

I don't feel like I have the moral high ground here "because I am the publisher". I have the moral high ground here because I don't condon theft, and you do. Simple as that. And name calling is correct. If you steal, and not you personally, but you as in anyone reading this, then it's right to classify you as a thief.

So when you are watching the news, and the reporter is talking about a crime where someone takes a painting off the wall, and she describes this person as a theif, is that some name calling like calling a kid a name because you are upset with him, or is that simply giving the person a label we can all agree is accurate and justified.

You steal, you get called what you are, which would be a theif. Don't like that title, hey, don't steal, then you wouldn't be a theif, would you?

If you go back to what was original asked, you'd see someone asked why I don't just steal music using common tools like Bit Torrent. And I replied, because I am not a theif. See what I am writing now? I'm merely being accurate. If you feel offended, perhaps it's because you might not be telling the truth about how you gain access to music, and you're offended that you have been called a thief.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... fella, it's a duck.

-Alex

[Alex Alexzander]

Originally Posted by ofelas

"Alex" - as teamcrn correctly mentions, it's "thIEf" not "thEIf"...I'd have expected better spelling from such an esteemed author & publisher & Avid founder & soapbox orator

Always a spelling cop around when they have nothing construction and on point to communicate. Had to wonder what took you this long.

-Alex

[teamcrn]

[QUOTE=Alex Alexzander;577256][QUOTE=teamcrn;577248]Whats with the personel Attacks? A liar and a thief and a crook? WOW We have a diffrence in thought process. Like i said from the start all my music comes from the record companies marketing dept's. I refuse to by bootleg movies because my 50 inch HD TV deserves better I know you feel like you have the moral high ground here because you are a "publisher" of some sort but you have no idea who i am so please you show your ignorance when you resort to name calling./

I don't feel like I have the moral high ground here "because I am the publisher". I have the moral high ground here because I don't condon theft, and you do. Simple as that. And name calling is correct. If you steal, and not you personally, but you as in anyone reading this, then it's right to classify you as a thief.

So when you are watching the news, and the reporter is talking about a crime where someone takes a painting off the wall, and she describes this person as a theif, is that some name calling like calling a kid a name because you are upset with him, or is that simply giving the person a label we can all agree is accurate and justified.

You steal, you get called what you are, which would be a theif. Don't like that title, hey, don't steal, then you wouldn't be a theif, would you?

If you go back to what was original asked, you'd see someone asked why I don't just steal music using common tools like Bit Torrent. And I replied, because I am not a theif. See what I am writing now? I'm merely being accurate. If you feel offended, perhaps it's because you might not be telling the truth about how you gain access to music, and you're offended that you have been called a thief.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... fella, it's a duck.

-Alex

I see you are still on your soap box!!!! Not offended i just think the name calling is pointless but your the publisher im just the poor Thief who steals music. Not to get way off topic but wasnt this country founded on Theft and Murder? Its the American Dream Alex!!!! Again if you knew me i wouldnt have to explain were i get my music from and how i get it first. But you dont know me so im not offended. The great thing about the internet is anyone with a thought cant broadcast it for millions to see or hear!!.


I wonder what type of silicon case with be made for the iphone i am the worse at dropping things. I hope Tmobile jumps on the iphone bandwagon after the 2 years are up. No insurance sucks

[test54]

ALex, I do agree that if its confidential it should stay that way but there was a time when the artists like to complain about how bad their deals were with the production companies and how they got a bad deal. When that comes out then its all fair game.

but back on topic, im with you teamcrn, just not sure about signing a contract to get one. oh and i saw a case for sale somewhere. and just because the country was founded on theft and murder doesnt make it right. I do side with Alex with the theft things, I stopped stealing after high school because well its not for me and my moral high ground.

[teamcrn]

Originally Posted by test54

ALex, I do agree that if its confidential it should stay that way but there was a time when the artists like to complain about how bad their deals were with the production companies and how they got a bad deal. When that comes out then its all fair game.

but back on topic, im with you teamcrn, just not sure about signing a contract to get one. oh and i saw a case for sale somewhere. and just because the country was founded on theft and murder doesnt make it right. I do side with Alex with the theft things, I stopped stealing after high school because well its not for me and my moral high ground.

Are we all so uptight this morning? Theft is wrong i was trying to change the tone of the convo. I guess im not good at cracking jokes.

[Alex Alexzander]

[QUOTE=teamcrn;577273][QUOTE=Alex Alexzander;577256]

Originally Posted by teamcrn

Whats with the personel Attacks? A liar and a thief and a crook? WOW We have a diffrence in thought process. Like i said from the start all my music comes from the record companies marketing dept's. I refuse to by bootleg movies because my 50 inch HD TV deserves better I know you feel like you have the moral high ground here because you are a "publisher" of some sort but you have no idea who i am so please you show your ignorance when you resort to name calling./

I see you are still on your soap box!!!! Not offended i just think the name calling is pointless but your the publisher im just the poor Thief who steals music. Not to get way off topic but wasnt this country founded on Theft and Murder? Its the American Dream Alex!!!! Again if you knew me i wouldnt have to explain were i get my music from and how i get it first. But you dont know me so im not offended. The great thing about the internet is anyone with a thought cant broadcast it for millions to see or hear!!.


I wonder what type of silicon case with be made for the iphone i am the worse at dropping things. I hope Tmobile jumps on the iphone bandwagon after the 2 years are up. No insurance sucks

You are right, I don't know you. As I wrote, if you are not stealing music, then you have nothing to be offended about. And I already corrected you once about my not being a publisher. I am published, not the publisher.

I also will tell you I make less than $2 for every book sold at $34.95. But if you told me that you felt bad about that, and thus stole my book to protest those greedy folks at CMPBooks, I'd be horrified. And if the artist of music isn't horrified about the theft of their music, which is technically not theirs, it's the labels, and the artist is merely an employee, then they have a few screws loose.

If they think they make nothing now, they ought to think about how little they will make if everyone buys one copy and gives out 25.

So for the record, this is not a personal attack on you. I use the word "you" to pretty much describe any reader in general.

Best,

Alex

[Alex Alexzander]

Originally Posted by test54

ALex, I do agree that if its confidential it should stay that way but there was a time when the artists like to complain about how bad their deals were with the production companies and how they got a bad deal. When that comes out then its all fair game.

but back on topic, im with you teamcrn, just not sure about signing a contract to get one. oh and i saw a case for sale somewhere. and just because the country was founded on theft and murder doesnt make it right. I do side with Alex with the theft things, I stopped stealing after high school because well its not for me and my moral high ground.

Thank you Test, I can agree with you there.

Best,

Alex

[teamcrn]

[QUOTE=Alex Alexzander;577283][QUOTE=teamcrn;577273]

Originally Posted by Alex Alexzander

You are right, I don't know you. As I wrote, if you are not stealing music, then you have nothing to be offended about. And I already corrected you once about my not being a publisher. I am published, not the publisher.

I also will tell you I make less than $2 for every book sold at $34.95. But if you told me that you felt bad about that, and thus stole my book to protest those greedy folks at CMPBooks, I'd be horrified. And if the artist of music isn't horrified about the left of their music, which is technically not theirs, it's the labels, and the artist is merely an employee, then they have a screws loose.

If they think they make nothing now, they ought to think about how little they will make if everyone buys one copy and gives out 25.

So for the record, this is not a personal attack on you. I use the word "you" to pretty much describe any reader in general.

Best,

Alex

Well what artist have done is used the internet and downloading as a tool to promote there music and have subsituted the loss they get from non payed downloads to ringtones. There is a bigger profit margin. Most ringtones are 1.99 the record company in most cases get 25% of that revenue. that leaves about 1.50 you take .50 for expenses and fee's the artist ends up with close to a whole dollar. now take an artist who only sold 300,000 units and the standard rookie deal is about 3 to 5 cents a record for royalties. the artist makes more money off of ringtones and has less overhead. 1 million ringtones= 1 million dollars less 33% for taxes. What people dont understand is an artist cant have it both ways you cant use the internet and leak or promote your self and complain later that people are downloaded your music.

Itunes downloads will now start to be counted in sound scan as were they didnt before. in your case with being published as a writer there isnt much of a market for bootlegging books but i under stand artist have alot of emotion behind there work so they get very angry or upset when they feel like they are not being compensated.

[teamcrn]

Double post sorry

[Alex Alexzander]

[QUOTE=teamcrn;577293][QUOTE=Alex Alexzander;577283]

Originally Posted by teamcrn

Well what artist have done is used the internet and downloading as a tool to promote there music and have subsituted the loss they get from non payed downloads to ringtones. There is a bigger profit margin. Most ringtones are 1.99 the record company in most cases get 25% of that revenue. that leaves about 1.50 you take .50 for expenses and fee's the artist ends up with close to a whole dollar. now take an artist who only sold 300,000 units and the standard rookie deal is about 3 to 5 cents a record for royalties. the artist makes more money off of ringtones and has less overhead. 1 million ringtones= 1 million dollars less 33% for taxes. What people dont understand is an artist cant have it both ways you cant use the internet and leak or promote your self and complain later that people are downloaded your music.

Itunes downloads will now start to be counted in sound scan as were they didnt before. in your case with being published as a writer there isnt much of a market for bootlegging books but i under stand artist have alot of emotion behind there work so they get very angry or upset when they feel like they are not being compensated.

I can't speak for music performers, but I can tell you it took me about 9 to 10 months of mornings, nights, and weekends, to write a book. technical manuals are not like writing a review, essay, or writing fiction. Every little name I use to describe so much as a menu has to be checked and verified, and it's enough to drive you insane.

I can tell you this. At no time was anyone ever dishonest about what I would be paid, or how many copies were likely to be sold. I knew what I was getting into. I believe artists will take a bad deal just to get started in the industry. In which case, hey, next time they will be better known, I hope, and thus be in more control to make a better deal for themselves.

Few rarely feel like they are properly compensated or appreciated for the efforts in any job. I wish I made more at my current job, and I certainly feel like I could be paid more when I consider what I actually bring in for the company. But I am also old enough to realzie my own role in what I have today. We all do our best to be paid fairly for what we do. All theft does, is clutter that up and make it harder. In my view, theft is never going to help the artist, and only going to make the situation worse.

Funny no one mentions the greed of Apple here. We are made to pay full list for the phone, plus a cancel fee if needed, plus I'll bet full price for the monthly services. All for less features. As I said, that Steve Jobs guy... Good salesman. Of course it helps to have lot's of kids that see the sizzle and easily forget about the steak.

-Alex

[teamcrn]

[QUOTE=Alex Alexzander;577313][QUOTE=teamcrn;577293][QUOTE=Alex Alexzander;577283]

I can't speak for music performers, but I can tell you it took me about 9 to 10 months of mornings, nights, and weekends, to write a book. technical manuals are not like writing a review, essay, or writing fiction. Every little name I use to describe so much as a menu has to be checked and verified, and it's enough to drive you insane.

I can tell you this. At no time was anyone ever dishonest about what I would be paid, or how many copies were likely to be sold. I knew what I was getting into. I believe artists will take a bad deal just to get started in the industry. In which case, hey, next time they will be better known, I hope, and thus be in more control to make a better deal for themselves.

Few rarely feel like they are properly compensated or appreciated for the efforts in any job. I wish I made more at my current job, and I certainly feel like I could be paid more when I consider what I actually bring in for the company. But I am also old enough to realzie my own role in what I have today. We all do our best to be paid fairly for what we do. All theft does, is clutter that up and make it harder. In my view, theft is never going to help the artist, and only going to make the situation worse.

Funny no one mentions the greed of Apple here. We are made to pay full list for the phone, plus a cancel fee if needed, plus I'll bet full price for the monthly services. All for less features. As I said, that Steve Jobs guy... Good salesman. Of course it helps to have lot's of kids that see the sizzle and easily forget about the steak.

-Alex[/QU

Data pricing hasn’t been released but that would be a AT&T issue and there will be no special pricing on the phone. The contract has nothing to do with apple that’s ATT's standard. The cancellation fee is also an AT&T standard again has nothing to do with apple. Yes Steve jobs are one hell of a sales man and manager. I did a term paper on him for my Principles of management job. Apples success and he being at the helm has a direct correlation. Some people just have "it". Blackberry is the king of data charges as of now. most treo or smart phone users pay like 5 bucks.