[LoganT]

Here's what I think they should have done.

Instead of making an all in one device, make just an iPod with those touch screen controls.

Then bring out an iPhone with suretype or qwerty keyboard (a really nice one though). And instead of putting 4 and 8 GB's of flash memory in it, put an SDHC slot in it. Keeps the price down for people who don't need the memory.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

TabletPC is one of the devices that I was referring to when saying touch screen typing devices have failed. I remember when Gates proudly announced at one CES a few years back that the touch screen tablet PC was the way of the future and was going to revolutionize the way people use computers. He also said that they would turn regular notebooks into paperwwights. He is still trying to push those things.

You know, I am one of the few people out there that actually thinks that the TabletPC/UMPC thing is a good concept, that is really going to go somewhere eventually. I just think that the hardware has been weak up to this point. This year, I think we are starting to see the sort of software that will make the idea fly, there are just price issues now.

All of that said, I just don't understand how it is that time and time again Apple manages to get people to say how 'amazing' and 'revolutionary' they are for just copying everyone else's products, and sticking it in a pretty case.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

Looks to me like they have a device targeted at the young consumer multimedia crowd, while coming in at a price point unheard of in the high end business market to date.

Nah, it is cheap compared to the top-of-the-line iPaqs and Cliés back in their day. I had this crazy multimedia Clié that was just insanely expensive. I think it set me back almost a grand. Funny thing is that was several years ago, and it did most of what this iPhone does, plus a lot of stuff the iPhone doesn't, and it had a full QWERTY keyboard that flipped behind the touchscreen that covered the entire face of the device.

It is hardly the most expensive handheld to date, but it is awfully pricey.

[phungy]

Looks like no carriers are allowed to sell the iPhone except Cingular until 2009. Granted there will be unlocked iPhones but dang. Screw the iPhone, I'm sticking with RIM.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by phungy

Looks like no carriers are allowed to sell the iPhone except Cingular until 2009. Granted there will be unlocked iPhones but dang.

Don't be quite so sure about that. Apple has long been the unrivaled KING of completely locked, proprietary hardware/OS combinations. Just ask those who tried to use "unlocked" versions of the Apple OS to build clone Apples and Macs. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the "locking" of this device to be much more sophisticated and much more difficult to crack than your typical cell phone, coupled with Apple's threat to go after anyone with legal action who starts unlocking them.

[Bounce]

I am really uncertain at this point why there are posts right now that say the iPhone is not competition for RIM. It is definitely hardcore competition.

Let me just take myself for example. I have been a loyal RIM/Blackberry/Tmobile customer for the last 6 years. I recall my first blackberry being the size of a house and still black and white, but I loved it.

However, with the release of the iPhone...not only will I be leaving blackberry, but also leaving T-Mobile. -- That is the reality of the situation.

I have always been an Apple Fanboy, and I strongly agree with most, that right now the barriers for entry are so out there that it's going to be almost imossible for exisiting companies, even RIM to compete with this product.

[phungy]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

Don't be quite so sure about that. Apple has long been the unrivaled KING of completely locked, proprietary hardware/OS combinations. Just ask those who tried to use "unlocked" versions of the Apple OS to build clone Apples and Macs. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the "locking" of this device to be much more sophisticated and much more difficult to crack than your typical cell phone, coupled with Apple's threat to go after anyone with legal action who starts unlocking them.

Well screw the iPhone, I'm sticking with RIM.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by Bounce

I am really uncertain at this point why there are posts right now that say the iPhone is not competition for RIM. It is definitely hardcore competition.

As you say, you are an Apple fanboy, and obviously one who doesn't need secure access to an Exchange server, nor a device that can be managed by IT. The number of Apple fanboys not using Exchange, and using a BlackBerry is an insignificant portion of RIM's market. If everyone like you switches to the iPhone, then RIM won't even notice it. Of course, there is also the fact that you might switch to the iPhone, and then come back to RIM.

Microsoft, Nokia, Palm, Motorola, Good, Danger, they have all tried to make a better mobile email device than RIM, and RIM is still considered the best. I see no evidence that Apple is going to best RIM right out of the gate with a better email client than anyone else. I'm sure that at some point someone is going to beat RIM, but I seriously doubt it is going to be the iPhone. As long as RIM has the best mobile email system, their core market is untouched. Palm and Windows Mobile devices already far surpass BlackBerries in terms of features and what they can do, but it is the reliability, simplicity, and email that keeps getting RIM more market share.

The iPhone is competing with Palm and Windows Mobile, while they are trying desperately to compete with RIM. For anyone in the market for a device like the iPhone, a BlackBerry isn't really on the list. It is going to be a choice between the Treo, some of the Windows Mobile devices, UMPCs, and the high-end Nokias. What all of those devices have in common is that they focus on multi-function features, with email just being one of those features thrown in there. The BlackBerry is an email device, which happens to do some other stuff. There is really not that much crossover in those markets. Most BlackBerry users have already had a multi-function device, and decided that they needed something more focused and reliable. No one is buying a BlackBerry because they expect it to replace their iPod, or run their favorite software, or let them view their pictures, or let them play cool games. They got a BlackBerry because they needed their email instantly, anywhere, or because IT handed it to them. Neither of those markets are threatened by the iPhone.

[jddphd]

When are they gonna have BB Connect for it!

[SanFrancisco]

Agreed, the iPhone is a PDA/phone. Other than the glitzy presentation today, I could picture the iPhone having been put on the market years ago, back when all the PDA/phones came out.

In fact, there are many things on the iPhone that don't compete with my Dell Axim, pictured below.

For one thing, mine has removable storage. I think CF ships are up to 5GB now, so on my four-year-old device I can have 5Gb, which gets close to the iPhone in terms of size, but my understanding is that the iPhone will not have removable storage. What's up with that?

Second, my Dell has a removable battery. That is way more preferred to an internal battery that has to be replaced by the factory. I cannot believe the iPhone will not have a removable battery.

My Dell has blue tooth and wi-fi, just like the iPhone will have.

My Dell can be as multi-media as I want and I can use it as a GPS, etc.

So other than a slick look, I don't see where the iPhone is all that innovative or revolutionary, that is, other than the fact that it's Apple's first entry into the cell phone market.

And yeah, has anyone in here tried typing on an LCD surface? I dunno, but it seems to me that if the iPhone keyboard occupies 1/3 of the display area [or even half], it's going to be very difficult to type e-mails, especially if one is on the move, such as in a car or on public transit.

[Stinsonddog]

So Cingular and Yahoo in bed together on this phone. Why can't we have Yahoo messenger on our current Cingular phone. Are the execs cheating on one another?

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

No one is buying a BlackBerry because they expect it to replace their iPod, or run their favorite software, or let them view their pictures, or let them play cool games. They got a BlackBerry because they needed their email instantly, anywhere, or because IT handed it to them. Neither of those markets are threatened by the iPhone.

Well said. If this device cannibalizes anyone's market, its not likely to be RIM, but Treo, the Q, Samsung BlackJack and other Win-Mobile devices. I'm thinking there's very little overlap between the self-professed "Apple fanboys" and the high end business market that's RIM's bread & butter.

[Stinsonddog]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

Well said. If this device cannibalizes anyone's market, its not likely to be RIM, but Treo, the Q, Samsung BlackJack and other Win-Mobile devices. I'm thinking there's very little overlap between the self-professed "Apple fanboys" and the high end business market that's RIM's bread & butter.

In my firm, if you want email, you gotta have a BB, so its my 8800 and a shuffle. RIM's business market seems safe.

[dgray8]

I'm finally glad apple went and made a cell phone. I would love to have a cell phone that operates the OS X system. I'm just waiting to see if they change it so that its a 3G capable device instead of the currently planned EDGE capible. I just want to play w/ one.....a touch phone w/o a stylus is extremely interesting to me......

but as they say....time will tell

[jbairdjr]

I have an IPOD already, and if the iPhone's screen is of the same plastic, it will scratch the first time you touch it.
I'll stick to the 8703.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

I'm thinking there's very little overlap between the self-professed "Apple fanboys" and the high end business market that's RIM's bread & butter.

Well, here in LA there are plenty of self-professed Apple fanboys who I know are dying to dump their BlackBerries for an iPhone the second it comes out. I could name several movie studios full of them. However, it isn't their choice. IT gave them their BlackBerries, and there is no way IT is going to swap those out for the iPhone unless between here and the day they hit the market Apple adds a ton of remote management features, and Exchange integration as tight as the BB's.

That is the real problem. All talk of being a fanboy aside, there are very few people willing to pay $600 for a phone, and work isn't going to buy it if it isn't as secure and manageable as a BlackBerry.

[paulbblc]

Please remember that this thread is here for comments, questions and info regarding the iPhone. Thus far this thread is staying pretty clean however as always personal attacks will not be tolerated. Lets keep it civil.

[tfaz1]

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

For anyone in the market for a device like the iPhone, a BlackBerry isn't really on the list. It is going to be a choice between the Treo, some of the Windows Mobile devices, UMPCs, and the high-end Nokias. What all of those devices have in common is that they focus on multi-function features, with email just being one of those features thrown in there. The BlackBerry is an email device, which happens to do some other stuff. There is really not that much crossover in those markets. Most BlackBerry users have already had a multi-function device, and decided that they needed something more focused and reliable. No one is buying a BlackBerry because they expect it to replace their iPod, or run their favorite software, or let them view their pictures, or let them play cool games. They got a BlackBerry because they needed their email instantly, anywhere, or because IT handed it to them. Neither of those markets are threatened by the iPhone.

That's mostly true. I don't see RIM's biggest markets (enterprise and government) moving to the iPhone.

There are, however, a lot of consumers like myself who tried a Treo, hated it and moved to BlackBerry. I don't work for a big company but I still want a reliable device that keeps me connected with email, organizes my contacts and appointments and allows me to browse the web for all kinds of information. That's why I went with a BlackBerry and praise it every chance I get. It truly is the best of it's kind *available*.

Today was the first time I saw a device that not only made me want to give up my 8700, but made it seem like something from the distant past. I don't know how I'm going to wait 6 months for the iPhone. Here's the basic functions with the average consumer in mind.

Email: BlackBerry is the clear winner here. Push email at it's best. Secure and easy to setup. That being said, the iPhone easily steps into second place and has a lot of features that the Palm either doesn't have or isn't doing well. If you're in the market for a Treo, Q or BlackJack, the iPhone is very competitive.

Organizer: I love Apple's productivity suite of iCal and Address Book. It's simple, powerful and built on open standards (unlike Outlook). iPhone syncs with these applications, which is good enough for me. I don't see any real advantage the BlackBerry has over the iPhone in this regard.

Internet: iPhone is the clear winner. It renders full web pages beautifully, both in landscape and portrait mode. It's great to browse with my BlackBerry in a pinch, but it's painful. Most modern websites look terrible on a BlackBerry, period. I personally saw a number of sites load on the iPhone and can say it's the best browsing experience of any smartphone on the market.

Also, let's not forget the handy WiFi card which, in addition to faster speeds, will provide iPhone users with the ability to use VoIP when it range of a wireless access point. For those who's cell phone is their *only* phone (see: Apple's target demo) this is going to be a HUGE success. Practically free minutes when at home, the dorm or your neighborhood internet cafe.

Music/Video/Pictures: Okay, show of hands. How many of you own iPods?? I see a lot of hands. How many of you carry both an iPod and a BlackBerry?? Again, a lot of hands out there. Don't think there's a HUGE market for an smartphone/iPod combo? You're not paying attention.

Price: A lot of people poo-poo'ed the original iPod as being overpriced (5GB for $400). You could have bought a 20GB Creative jukebox for $500 at the time. Many people fail to realize that a device is more than just the sum of it's parts. I would tend to expect BlackBerry users to understand this concept. We're all used to people telling us all the neat tricks the Treo does as we try to explain that things like interface, attention to detail and reliability are why we go the RIM route.

I had a nice chuckle when I saw someone try to compare the iPhone to the Dell PDA. "But, the Dell does stuff too..." Yeah, the iPod isn't the only media player on the market. It isn't even the cheapest. It's just the best. I expect the iPhone to have a similar impact.

Getting back to the original quote, I agree that the iPhone isn't the ideal device for everyone - especially hard-core CrackBerry addicts who *send* enormous amounts of email from their devices. But for the average user, like me, who wants to stay connected to email but isn't doing a ton of sending, this is going to be a HUGE hit. Put this thing next to it's real competitors (Treo, Q and Blackjack) and it's a no brainier. Even so, I can understand why some of the BlackBerry loyalists are getting a little touchy with a case of iPhone-envy. How could you not? This thing makes our BlackBerrys look like they should be charged with a crank.

Signed, a very satisfied BlackBerry user (for another 6 months, at least).

[SanFrancisco]

CNET took a poll and posted the results. Asked what features on the iPhone most impressed. Interesting that 38% said "blah, it's a phone."

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

I had a nice chuckle when I saw someone try to compare the iPhone to the Dell PDA. "But, the Dell does stuff too..." Yeah, the iPod isn't the only media player on the market. It isn't even the cheapest. It's just the best. I expect the iPhone to have a similar impact.

That was me. I mentioned my Dell Axim X50v PDA to illustrate that the iPhone is not new in terms of form and function. My point was that four years ago there were devices that operated like the iPhone does [touch screen], plays media [MP3 and video], has PDA functions, and has Net access via wi-fi.

I duly noted that the iPhone in 2007 has many upgrades compared to my 2002 Dell, but conceptually they are not that different and in some respects [e.g., the removable battery and storage] IMHO the Dell is better. I don't understand why Apple would go with a fixed drive and battery.

If we stepped back in time and talked about my Dell, it would not have been difficult to conceptualize the iPhone in 2007. Why? Because it's not that remarkable.

In regards to your avatar, are you a fan of Charles? Have not seen him around much on the Net, other than on Wikipedia. I have Churchill and Roosevelt pics myself.