[digitalextremes]

I am really disappointed at this and would like some debate on this issue:

Isn't this illegal for Rogers to not provide unlock codes?

I understand that the strategy is to get the customer use Rogers SIMs while roaming so they can increase their revenue but isn't it illegal for a carrier to not let the customer use their own product the way they want to use it?

We don't lease the units from Rogers, buy pay good money for them, I am talking about paying $600 for a BB8800 and not being able to use it with a different SIM.

Can we start a petition?

Rogers need to do what's good for their customers and not force the customers into doing something that they might not want to. The decision should be left to the customer which SIM they want to use.

[nsimpson]

Its not illegal to lock phones. People unlock them for money as well as Rogers customer care. Your petition would be pointless. Locking the phones is what every carrier in north america does and its not a Rogers specific issue. Fido, Bell, Telus and every other carrier in north america locks their phones.

[Jagga]

Originally Posted by nsimpson

Its not illegal to lock phones. People unlock them for money as well as Rogers customer care. Your petition would be pointless. Locking the phones is what every carrier in north america does and its not a Rogers specific issue.

I'll start here. Not illegal in CANADA. Its a law in the USA to "PREVENT" an unlock code without a reasonable timeline (less than 3mths to release it to the end user upon request). It was HUGE news less than 5-7mths ago. I'd like to search for th FCC press release but too tired atm.

Originally Posted by digitalextremes

I am really disappointed at this and would like some debate on this issue:

Isn't this illegal for Rogers to not provide unlock codes?

I understand that the strategy is to get the customer use Rogers SIMs while roaming so they can increase their revenue but isn't it illegal for a carrier to not let the customer use their own product the way they want to use it?

We don't lease the units from Rogers, buy pay good money for them, I am talking about paying $600 for a BB8800 and not being able to use it with a different SIM.

Can we start a petition?

Rogers need to do what's good for their customers and not force the customers into doing something that they might not want to. The decision should be left to the customer which SIM they want to use.

Now here there are MANY MANY consideration before you even BEGIN to start a petition.

1! Note that Mark Rejhon's (sorry if I spelt your surname wrong, not intential) petetion for Rogers to increase to 200MB data cap up from 100MB was STRICTLY to prevent such a large base of corporate users from spreading the word to their corporations that setup contracts en masse across the country.

Now the considerations ...

1> Understand that Rogers is in DEEP with the CRTC. Recent history of the purchase of Fido and ripping up the network towers, upping payment structures, adjusting plans, even forcing those to follow the adjustments (not competition I must say, thank you CRTC), etc WITHOUT the disclosure of the CRTC agreement that Rogers Wireless made regarding the purchase of Fido open to the public, which they serve mostly.

2> Purchasing the BlackBerry on 1/2/3yr contracts (the 1yr for 599.99) is a subsidized price. This DEEMS the right to keep it locked to Rogers as in fact your are FINANCING the cost of the unit while paying for services. Sure we can argue an asking price to 'unlock' the unit to finish up your financing.

3>

Rogers need to do what's good for their customers and not force the customers into doing something that they might not want to. The decision should be left to the customer which SIM they want to use.

> Now this is the critical point. Taking over Fido gave Rogers HUGELY cheap contracts with over 170 Country's. This didn't result in significantly cheaper pricing for roaming with Rogers' SIM cards. IF a large class action & incredibly GOOD lawyer team can argue this point on multiple SIM card purchases, ease of setup & call forwarding then you'd be pressuring Rogers.
The lawyer team ... $$$ - something I don't have, or if CRTC got off their laurels & allowed outside competition to FULLY setup shop would be nice.

Lastly if ANY or all can be done without coming across as hostile but more HEY wake up you loose your vacation money for the next several years or hey top brass your lifestyles would significantly be affected.

> For this to happen smoothly and effectively, many of us would HAVE to commit to changing providers ... Mark did for quite some time, and went back to Rogers when they changed their tune. Unless the 8830e/8803e debuts on Telus/Bell or both soon - judging about how nice & quickly ppl are upgrading to the 8800 this would be the only logical upgrade. WE'd have EV-DO (a nice upgrade in speed & Tethering), hopefully FULL BT abilities, and GPS along with a SIM card for GSM/GPRS/EDGE global roaming.

considering the 8803/8830e that Verizon is about to get ... ALL the CDMA providers around the world should've put it MAJOR cash for such a device to debut first or simultaneously. BELL & TELUS could have considerable revenue increases this quarter, if they had it at the beginning of number portability along with incredible offers.

[snowskier79]

Originally Posted by Jagga

I'll start here. Not illegal in CANADA. Its a law in the USA to "PREVENT" an unlock code . . . .

Good lord son . . . nice summary though w/excellent points.

[NJBlackBerry]

Aren't there commercial unlockers that can now unlock Rogers phones? Yes, they cost money, but they will unlock your phone.

[digitalextremes]

I woule really start a petition to get Rogers to put timelines like US, let's say 1 year or something resonable to Rogers vs The People

[Jagga]

Well I'm not sure about in Canada, but I'm sure they can be contacted over the phone or via PayPal to perform the required service, so yes.

Thanks guys. I'd like to see more input though as unlocking is always best from the provider, as the SIM Lock is acquired directly from RIM. HEY would RIM assist directly on this? Hmm. Coming from other manufacturers, getting the SIM Unlock for a Motorola previously meant you ALSO needed the Browser app also unlocked, and Nokia MMC based devices (like the 6620) you also had to have the MMC card slot unlocked, and my last phone the SE W810i meant I couldn't use SE's SEUS service for firmware upgrades I'd have to use a 3rd party service - healthy I might add for SE phones, but nerve racking & costly non-the-less.

[digitalextremes]

Yes there are commercial unlockers, but at the end of the pipeline the unlocke codes are generated by either a Rogers employee or a RIM employee (someone correct me if I am wrong here) So, its being done illegally anyways.

One person's voice might not be heard by when a bunch of poeple get together their voice is heard for sure, thats why I am calling for a petition, not about paying money to get the unlock code on eBay its about my rights, I think there should be a law like if a customer has been paying their bills for 1 yr or (over 7 yrs in my case), in that case when I spend $700 to buy an 8800 (probably half or 1/3rd of someone's 2 week's/4 weeks pay).....at least I deserve an unlock code just like TMobile does for any customer who has had an active account for 90 days, they giv ethe unlock code within 48 hrs.....ever wonder why TMobile won 4 JD Powers awards in customer satisfaction in a row? I wonder when Rogers will learn and get over the monopoly....I think we already pay the price by paying high costs of the data services when it comes to wireless, bit caps and usage caps when it comes to Rogers Internet, etc.

[Jagga]

Originally Posted by digitalextremes

... its about my rights,

I completely Agree, I just wanted to post what we're all up against. But this is what its for ... to stop being raped.

Originally Posted by digitalextremes

.....at least I deserve an unlock code just like TMobile does for any customer who has had an active account for 90 days, they giv ethe unlock code within 48 hrs.....ever wonder why TMobile won 4 JD Powers awards in customer satisfaction in a row? I wonder when Rogers will learn and get over the monopoly....I think we already pay the price by paying high costs of the data services when it comes to wireless, bit caps and usage caps when it comes to Rogers Internet, etc.

I know why Tmobile won JD Powers & Associates awards. Because they go the extra mile to provide quality service over the phone & to bend over backwards to help a grumbling client. They know that word of mouth is VERY powerful in the US, but here in Canada its pretty weak. Different culture really. I'm hoping this'll change.

[NJBlackBerry]

Which right is that? The Right To An Unlocked BlackBerry. I missed that Right when I was in school.

That's not a right.

And you are not being raped. Stop with the melodrama. You are paying too much for service. And you don't have many alternatives. Boo hoo. But it is NOT rape. Another poor choice of words.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by Jagga

I'd like to see more input though as unlocking is always best from the provider, as the SIM Lock is acquired directly from RIM.

How have you determined that unlocking is best from the provider? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your statement to mean that the carrier's unlock code is somehow better...

[NJBlackBerry]

That's news to me...
Guess those unlock codes from GSMPhoneSource are second rate.

[gs1026]

New to forum so hello to every one..... Tmobile has a soft release date of the 23rd of this month

[penguin3107]

Originally Posted by gs1026

New to forum so hello to every one..... Tmobile has a soft release date of the 23rd of this month

Way to stay on-topic!
Oh, and welcome to the forum.

[NJBlackBerry]

Film at eleven. I wonder if that has made it to the ten or so other "T-Mobile/8800" posts....

[Jagga]

Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry

Which right is that? The Right To An Unlocked BlackBerry. I missed that Right when I was in school.

That's not a right.

And you are not being raped. Stop with the melodrama. You are paying too much for service. And you don't have many alternatives. Boo hoo. But it is NOT rape. Another poor choice of words.

Ok you must not have ever had the misfortune of seeing the turn of events here in Canada.

let me break it down for you ...

1. Fido for many many years since 1996 offered unlimited data for $50 CAN/mthly. This meant on GPRS at that time ... on your phone or a data card you can connect as LONG as you want for as many MB/GB per month WITHOUT fear of perceived abuse or being capped. Their WERE the ONLY ones offering this and they were the SMALLEST provider of the four throughout Canada (or BIG 4, MVNO as Canadian based outsellers of wireless services come & go very quickly. To be honest only 5 ever existed).

2. Up until testing in early 2001 and Nov. 1/2(1st was official and major network failures stopped phone reps from selling GSM phones) Fido was the ONLY GSM provider in Canada. Rogers AT&T Wireless were TDMA based until November 2001. Then it was back boned on TDMA until full transition of GSM-core network occured in mid-2002 (I believe).

3. for a BRIEF and I meant only 3mths did Telus Mobility & BELL Mobility offer unlimited data, and quickly removed this offering.

4. historically Rogers NEVER offered large data packages for consumers OR business' until recently. And if a petition of 10000+ strong is what it takes for Rogers to up the 100MB limit for $100 add-on to a voice plan EVEN for BB users ($1/Mbyte? Insane for the information age), and almost 1 yr later to bump up to 200MB for the SAME price, thats NOT a convenience or a bone to chalk up to end users.

5. Rogers gets a windfall approval for buying Fido's GSM network, business and best of all Roaming contracts. This after 4mths of TELUS trying to get approval to purchase Fido and finally gave up ... Rogers got approved in no less than 1mth without a hitch. Full details of the agreement are STILL unknown to the public.

6. After Rogers purchase of Fido, less than 3mths, towers where killed off - due to redundancy - some kept, but that nice unlimited data option ....GONE! Rogers has more users than Fido. You should SEE the asking price for a grandfathered plan on a Fido account that still has the option with the ability to use Rogers EDGE network when that began back in 2005, and now HSDPA for the SAME loot on grandfathered. I saw asking $1000 for a simple $79/mth before taxes account with NO contract. A freaking PRICE PLAN! :O.

7. Fido had the BEST roaming rates, not just in Canada but in the INDUSTRY. Roaming minute billing for ANYWHERE in the USA (not including Hawaii/Alaska) was $0.67CAN yes. Rogers ranged from $0.97/!.97 avg up to over $2.97 depending on the state. Some so bad that if you traveled through State 1 you'd be at 97cents, then into state 2 you'd be at over $2, then third state at .97cents. Worse if you're call began in the second state and continued over into the 3rd state you're STILL at over $2/min. Lets not think about going to Europe. BTW those from the US/Europe on Rogers get much better roaming rates of voice & data usuage. Did those rates drop to near Fido's rates? No! Flat out NO! Their roaming agreements for coverage approved thanks to Fido's established lasting/ongoing contracts.


And like many other providers following a mold, they advertise Happy Meal packages of music, video streaming, channels, bundles. But nothing for A La Cart of just raw data to use as you wish. These days are gone ... looks like that way is starting even on Cingular but there are enough economies of scale (subscribers vs providers wanting a piece of the cheddar)

Now tell me if being RAPED is not the appropriate word? Go take a look at pages & threads at Hofo to see the substantiating of my claims? I even worked at Rogers AT&T as a grunt & got to test the GSM network for free 3mths before launch. I've seen a lot to know what is an inconvenience as apposed to having your dollar raped. Sure its not forcing you, but this is a want that equates to a need in this day and age of ready & obtainable data/information.

Can those of us here go cold Turkey without a blackberry thats been on a BES for 4mths plus? Heck even NO cellphone for 1mth straight?! NJBlackBerry, many ppl such as yourself - most likely - have the luxury of paying a fair market price for uncapped unlimited data. Residents of Canada don't have this luxury and our market climate so to speak doesn't warrant it just yet.

[azmmza]

I can unlock any rogers blackberry

see my website at Unlock Your Blackberry - T-Mobile, Cingular, ANY GSM

[NJBlackBerry]

Jagga - what a sad, sad story.
I guess you really still haven't figured out what the word rape means.
Seriously - you made a great case (not to me, I have choices) for the awful state of mobile communications and the high costs in Canada, until you went and used it again.

Another Imus moment.

[Ryan8700]

I don't think it's illegal - T-Mobile used to provide unlock codes for Sidekicks for free, but hundreds were sold over eBay. Now there is litterly no such thing as an unlocked Sidekick 3 (however SunCom unlocks their Hiptop3's for free)

[pondorpool]

With my first post to the forum I'm going to wade into this heated discussion...

There's no question that we get hosed by the providers in Canada. I work for a US based company and the things I continue to hear from my colleagues about their plans/costs/flexibility/etc have finally caused me to take some action. After having my BlackBerry with Rogers for about the last 4 years (and voice for over 8years) I'm pulling the plug on my BB service and moving to Cingular out of the US. Now, my situation warrants that I travel to the US at least 7 or 8 times a year so I was also looking for a way to pick up some US voice minutes and my new plan accomplishes that at the same time.

The way I've figured it, even if the exchange rate fluctuates a bit I'll still be better off (value for money spent).

Rogers
Device: $499 + Tax = $570 on a 3 Year commitment
$65/month for 25MB+25MB data plan
$40/month for 60mins US roaming add-on

Cingular
Device: $275 + Tax = $300US (1.15 xchange = $345 CDN) on a 2 Year commitment
$65CDN /month unlimited International Data plan*
$40CDN /month for 400mins rollover + 5000 nights/wknds + unlimited mobile2mobile plan
(All plans are discounted through a corporate plan with Cingular and I've used a 1.15% exchange rate to approximate Cdn$)

*International Data Plan allows unlimited Data use across all of North America and several other Countries as well - no roaming charges - so I can use it as much as I want while up in Canada...

Pros
Cheaper Capital cost for the device
Monthly costs are about the same
Get way more minutes & MB for my money
Never have to worry about roaming charges for my data/email/telenav/etc (even when I go to Europe next month!)

Cons
I have to keep 2 separate devices for my voice and data (which does break my heart because I think with the 8800 I was finally looking to go back to only 1 device)
??

So, again, while this may not work for everyone it's my workaround to the pillaging the Canadian carriers pride themselves on.

Just my 0.02